FBI Probes Laser Beam Directed at Cockpit at 8500'
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FBI Probes Laser Beam Directed at Cockpit at 8500'
http://makeashorterlink.com/?M24C12F1A
FBI Probes Laser Beam Directed at Cockpit
CLEVELAND - Authorities are investigating a mysterious laser beam that was directed into the cockpit of a commercial jet traveling at more than 8,500 feet.
The beam appeared Monday when the plane was about 15 miles from Cleveland Hopkins International Airport, the FBI (news - web sites) said.
"It was in there for several seconds like (the plane) was being tracked," FBI agent Robert Hawk said.
FBI Probes Laser Beam Directed at Cockpit
CLEVELAND - Authorities are investigating a mysterious laser beam that was directed into the cockpit of a commercial jet traveling at more than 8,500 feet.
The beam appeared Monday when the plane was about 15 miles from Cleveland Hopkins International Airport, the FBI (news - web sites) said.
"It was in there for several seconds like (the plane) was being tracked," FBI agent Robert Hawk said.
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Apparently several incidents:
http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/12/29/laser.plane/index.html
Not a very reliable way to attack aircraft but maybe a way to agitate a few easily-scared sheeple with media hype.
http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/12/29/laser.plane/index.html
Not a very reliable way to attack aircraft but maybe a way to agitate a few easily-scared sheeple with media hype.
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Originally Posted by studentff
Apparently several incidents:
http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/12/29/laser.plane/index.html
Not a very reliable way to attack aircraft but maybe a way to agitate a few easily-scared sheeple with media hype.
http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/12/29/laser.plane/index.html
Not a very reliable way to attack aircraft but maybe a way to agitate a few easily-scared sheeple with media hype.
If it happened at 8500 feet I presume it's a little more than a kid with a laser pointer, but I hope you're right that it would be an ineffective way to attack aircraft.
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Originally Posted by Fredd
There have been other recent alleged incidents. In one of the Tom Clancy novels (Debt of Honor?) Mr. Clark uses some kind of laser to blind a pilot and cause a plane to crash as it was landing. Was that the novel in which a pilot also deliberately crashed a plane into the Capitol Building?
But, of course, that's fiction.
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Originally Posted by CO FF
Fredd - that was exactly what I was going to say. Clancy wrote the scene with John Clark & Domingo Chavez using lasers to blind Japanese AWACS pilots on landing, in Debt of Honor, as a prelude to the US Special Forces attack. A few hundred pages later, he has the JAL 747 crashing into the Capitol.
But, of course, that's fiction.
But, of course, that's fiction.
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One would need a pretty smooth and accurate gimbal in order to keep the beam consistently pointed at the cockpit. Also, the a/c would have to be banked sufficiently in order to get as shot in the window.
I've "played" with lasers and agree that it's not an effective weapon when used as the article alleges. For the cost and effort involved, one could buy several MANPADS.
Having said that, I wonder if anyone has looked into if any shopping malls, movie theaters, or night clubs had searchlights or lasers set up to promote something?
I've "played" with lasers and agree that it's not an effective weapon when used as the article alleges. For the cost and effort involved, one could buy several MANPADS.
Having said that, I wonder if anyone has looked into if any shopping malls, movie theaters, or night clubs had searchlights or lasers set up to promote something?
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Originally Posted by FliesWay2Much
One would need a pretty smooth and accurate gimbal in order to keep the beam consistently pointed at the cockpit. Also, the a/c would have to be banked sufficiently in order to get as shot in the window.
I've "played" with lasers and agree that it's not an effective weapon when used as the article alleges. For the cost and effort involved, one could buy several MANPADS.
Having said that, I wonder if anyone has looked into if any shopping malls, movie theaters, or night clubs had searchlights or lasers set up to promote something?
I've "played" with lasers and agree that it's not an effective weapon when used as the article alleges. For the cost and effort involved, one could buy several MANPADS.
Having said that, I wonder if anyone has looked into if any shopping malls, movie theaters, or night clubs had searchlights or lasers set up to promote something?
http://www.kktv.com/home/headlines/1309846.html
Federal officials are investigating reports from two pilots who say bright lights were aimed from the ground into their cockpits as they headed into the Colorado Springs Airport.
Both planes landed without problems on Monday night.
Federal officials issued a warning this month that terrorists might try to down aircraft by shining powerful lasers into cockpits to blind pilots during landing approaches.
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Reading articles on the net I have read comments suggesting that the tracking of the plane with the laser would have required sophisticated equipment.
Thinking about it, I realize that this is unlikely to be true.
Consider the following: The laser illuminated the cockpit presumably through the front windows. This means that the laser was located almost directly in front of the plane. At 8500' soon before landing it is a no-brainer that the plane was descending. So the plane was virtually heading straight for the laser. Even though its airspeed was several hundred of knots, its motion relative to the laser (i.e. its angular velocity measured from the laser) would have been very close to zero.
So assuming that the laser was mounted in a way to prevent vibration and had some sort of simple mechanical controls for fine tuning the direction it would not be difficult to keep it aligned with the plane. Especially if the mount also had optics to see where the beam was hitting.
I believe that lasers used in construction have all of these requirements (along with sufficient power).
The only hard part is finding a plane heading straight for the laser (which might not be that hard for certain locations on commonly used approaches), and getting it initially lined up.
As for the issue of getting it lined up in the first time: We don't know how many times the operator had attempted this without success.
Thinking about it, I realize that this is unlikely to be true.
Consider the following: The laser illuminated the cockpit presumably through the front windows. This means that the laser was located almost directly in front of the plane. At 8500' soon before landing it is a no-brainer that the plane was descending. So the plane was virtually heading straight for the laser. Even though its airspeed was several hundred of knots, its motion relative to the laser (i.e. its angular velocity measured from the laser) would have been very close to zero.
So assuming that the laser was mounted in a way to prevent vibration and had some sort of simple mechanical controls for fine tuning the direction it would not be difficult to keep it aligned with the plane. Especially if the mount also had optics to see where the beam was hitting.
I believe that lasers used in construction have all of these requirements (along with sufficient power).
The only hard part is finding a plane heading straight for the laser (which might not be that hard for certain locations on commonly used approaches), and getting it initially lined up.
As for the issue of getting it lined up in the first time: We don't know how many times the operator had attempted this without success.
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I think it is important to note that these are GREEN lasers being reported.
Unlike the typical red laser pointers, a green pointer will create a visible beam in the air (assuming it is night). Since you can see the beam it is really easy to aim. Amateur astronomers use them to point out objects of interest in the night sky.
While I think the TSA, FBA, etc. need to evaluate the threat that lasers might evntually pose, I'd bet a significant amount that these recent sightings are caused by idiots with new christmas toys.
Unlike the typical red laser pointers, a green pointer will create a visible beam in the air (assuming it is night). Since you can see the beam it is really easy to aim. Amateur astronomers use them to point out objects of interest in the night sky.
While I think the TSA, FBA, etc. need to evaluate the threat that lasers might evntually pose, I'd bet a significant amount that these recent sightings are caused by idiots with new christmas toys.
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Originally Posted by CO FF
Clancy wrote the scene with John Clark & Domingo Chavez using lasers to blind Japanese AWACS pilots on landing, in Debt of Honor, as a prelude to the US Special Forces attack. A few hundred pages later, he has the JAL 747 crashing into the Capitol.
And "Storming Heaven" by Dale Brown is a better analogy to what happened on 9.11, as it details multiple terrorists attacks using commercial airliners.
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Originally Posted by SEA_Tigger
Clark and Chavez actually used a three-million candlepower xenon arc light (just checked the passage in the book).
And "Storming Heaven" by Dale Brown is a better analogy to what happened on 9.11, as it details multiple terrorists attacks using commercial airliners.
And "Storming Heaven" by Dale Brown is a better analogy to what happened on 9.11, as it details multiple terrorists attacks using commercial airliners.
Here's another article about an incident with a police helicopter:
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20050101/D87B2G180.html
Person Questioned About Laser Beam, Planes
Dec 31, 11:33 PM (ET)
By BRUCE SHIPKOWSKI
TRENTON, N.J. (AP) - A laser beam was aimed at a police helicopter Friday - one of several incidents involving aircraft across the country in the past week - and federal authorities were questioning someone who had been at a house where they said the light had originated.
Officials said no one was hurt when the laser hit the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey police helicopter as it flew over an area where a similar incident occurred Wednesday.
Soon after, Port Authority officials and the FBI went to a Parsippany home where they had tracked the laser beam and were questioning a person there in connection with both incidents, said Steve Coleman, an authority spokesman.
Here's a more recent account from CNN on the above:
http://makeashorterlink.com/?F2ED1232A
Last edited by Fredd; Jan 1, 2005 at 3:56 pm Reason: to add CNN piece
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http://apnews.myway.com/article/20050105/D87DMD880.html
Man Charged Under Patriot Act for Laser
Jan 4, 11:01 PM (ET)
By WAYNE PARRY
NEWARK, N.J. (AP) - Federal authorities Tuesday used the Patriot Act to charge a man with pointing a laser beam at an airplane overhead and temporarily blinding the pilot and co-pilot.
The FBI acknowledged the incident had no connection to terrorism but called David Banach's actions "foolhardy and negligent."
Banach, 38, of Parsippany admitted to federal agents that he pointed the light beam at a jet and a helicopter over his home near Teterboro Airport last week, authorities said. Initially, he claimed his daughter aimed the device at the helicopter, they said.
He is the first person arrested after a recent rash of reports around the nation of laser beams hitting airplanes.
Man Charged Under Patriot Act for Laser
Jan 4, 11:01 PM (ET)
By WAYNE PARRY
NEWARK, N.J. (AP) - Federal authorities Tuesday used the Patriot Act to charge a man with pointing a laser beam at an airplane overhead and temporarily blinding the pilot and co-pilot.
The FBI acknowledged the incident had no connection to terrorism but called David Banach's actions "foolhardy and negligent."
Banach, 38, of Parsippany admitted to federal agents that he pointed the light beam at a jet and a helicopter over his home near Teterboro Airport last week, authorities said. Initially, he claimed his daughter aimed the device at the helicopter, they said.
He is the first person arrested after a recent rash of reports around the nation of laser beams hitting airplanes.
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Originally Posted by Fredd
Then, on Friday, a helicopter carrying Port Authority detectives was hit by a laser beam as its crew surveyed the area to try to pinpoint the origin of the original beam.
Initially, he claimed his daughter aimed the device at the helicopter, they said.
He was accused of interfering with the operator of a mass transportation vehicle and making false statements to the FBI, and was released on $100,000 bail. He could get up to 25 years in prison and fines of up to $500,000.
"Not only was the safety of the pilot and passengers placed in jeopardy by Banach's actions, so were countless innocent civilians on the ground in this densely populated area," said Joseph Billy, agent in charge of the FBI's Newark bureau.
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Yeah he is a doofus, but I think the crime does not really fit the punishment. Prison time isn't going to really help. Do you think he is likely to do this stupid trick again?
IMHO he should get a punishment on the order of what he'd get for a DUI. Maybe 10K in fines, plus perhaps some probation/community service.
I think a 10K fine is a plenty big deterrent for the random idiot, and half a million is not enough of a deterrent to stop a real terrorist.
IMHO he should get a punishment on the order of what he'd get for a DUI. Maybe 10K in fines, plus perhaps some probation/community service.
I think a 10K fine is a plenty big deterrent for the random idiot, and half a million is not enough of a deterrent to stop a real terrorist.
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Originally Posted by VPescado
Yeah he is a doofus, but I think the crime does not really fit the punishment. Prison time isn't going to really help. Do you think he is likely to do this stupid trick again?
IMHO he should get a punishment on the order of what he'd get for a DUI. Maybe 10K in fines, plus perhaps some probation/community service.
I think a 10K fine is a plenty big deterrent for the random idiot, and half a million is not enough of a deterrent to stop a real terrorist.
IMHO he should get a punishment on the order of what he'd get for a DUI. Maybe 10K in fines, plus perhaps some probation/community service.
I think a 10K fine is a plenty big deterrent for the random idiot, and half a million is not enough of a deterrent to stop a real terrorist.
And in the meantime, every idiot with a laser will see the the "25 year jailtime" headline on this and put it back in his pocket.