peteropny

I agree with this also. VX should be a "new" airline with "staying power" and their frequent traveler program seems to be forthcoming shortly. Approving this forum now would serve to consolidate posts in the "right" place rather than scattered all through FT.

Also, the mere fact that their frequent traveler program isn't in place right now should not be a deterrent. As pointed out above, the majority (over 1/2 anyways) of the posts in any of the existing programs have to do with issues of that travel provider and not necessarily the program itself. This is certainly true of the Hyatt forum.

Jenbel

On a point of information (and speaking as one of the VS mods), I've seen two VX threads on that forum in the two months or so I've been modding VS - one of which has been moved across to ON&SAFFP. I get more misplaced threads in CBuzz than I do in VS.

I'd hate to think TB was assessing these things on incorrect information

The situation early on was one of confusion, but pretty much all posts these days about VX are in ON&SAFFP. So I'm not seeing the 'scattered throughout FT' argument as being particularly valid these days. They aren't anymore. They are concentrated in ON&SAFFP - hence AZ travels the world's comments!

I'm also averse to the 'it's generating buzz' argument. Lots of things Virgin group does generate buzz... it doesn't mean they have staying power. There are many different airlines around the world which are already bigger than VX, have already FFPs, and which don't have their own forum (Eastern Air, Virgin Blue were identified in the previous thread on this).

Where I am being swayed is that undoubtedly there is an increasing number of threads and posts about VX. Is it enough to reach a critical mass yet? I still think there may have been more posts about giving VX its own forum than actually about VX, but for once VX was actually catching up until I seconded this motion (because I felt it was time we took this to a vote - there had been plenty of debate on it, time we voted one way or the other). But that's a very telling comment about the interest in VX vs getting a forum for VX

ldsant

I agree with what AZ said 100%. Just because there isn't a ff program TODAY doesn't mean that it won't happen tomorrow. Since there is so much interest (and growing) not sure why this wouldn't be voted affirmatively.

ElmhurstNick

I've mentioned this before elsewhere, but has anybody from Inside Flyer reached out to VX? You know, maybe organize a chat or something. Better yet, an official rep in the vein of the great Starwood Lurker?

If they talked with Randy and said "we want input from your members" and were willing to support it, then I don't care if they only got one post a month, I'd still support the forum.

itsaboutthejourney

adding to the above and AZ's excellent points: VX has assigned me an EleVAte account number and I assume the flights I've taken are being credited to that account, so I'd take issue with Spiff's argument that they don't have a FF program. I use FlyerTalk to help me decide how to best use my miles & points, and at this important stage in the eleVAte program I would think that a dedicated VX forum on FlyerTalk would be the best and most logical place for discussion and sharing of information on the program as it's launched.

I encourage the TB to vote to create this forum.

Spiff

But it also doesn't mean it will happen tomorrow, either.

Jenbel

I think because we have been assured on sooooo many occasions that interest in an airline is growing, and if we create a forum, people will come. And IME that usually doesn't happen.

Several times bitten on that argument, now shy so I'm not really that keen on creating a forum based on a predicted future performance. I'd much rather wait until we have a proven demand (and for me, in fairness, VX is now teetering on that brink) rather than assuming that it will continue to grow.

We don't know where the final interest level for VX will settle out yet in FT terms. I could as equally likely argue that interest levels in it will peak once most people have tried it and return to their regular mileage earning programmes and you would not be in a position to refute except based on your own opinion. IMHO, it's not great (because we've tried it so often in the past to prove it doesn't work) to be deciding on forums based on people's opinions of what will happen with the airline and the interest in the airline in the future.

Make an argument around what is happening now - as AZ travels the world did - and you'll get a lot less disagreement from me.

l etoile

FlyerTalk is a lot more than miles and points though. If it wasn't, we wouldn't have a dining forum, location-specific forums and so forth. While many of us may think of FT as being only or primarily about points and miles, if you look at the home page that's not what it says. FT has evolved to be far more about general travel than specifically points and miles.

Besides, though VX has not yet launched Elevate, it has promised it (the website does already explain the point system and that 4900 points will get you a free flight and that you can already earn points). I don't think it's a question of if VX will have a FF program, but if FT will be prepared with a forum when the program is launched and there is a flood of new threads.

Even now, Virgin America has generated a lot of attention, but the many threads for the airline are scattered across different forums, which serves no one. In the past, TB has had asked for a proven need before creating a forum. As previous posters have mentioned, the number of VX threads and posts should show that there is definitely a need and an interest. I hope the TB will vote for a VX/Elevate forum.

ScottC

Here is my main reason for supporting this forum:

1) I want Flyertalk to be the "go to" place to discuss the airline. Sure, it may not all be about miles and points right away, but as the airline grows it will be good that FT was the first to have a good forum for it.

2) I found the debates supporting it to be pretty civil and the members presented their reasoning behind their support.

3) It's the last thing I'll get to vote on as my Talkboard term is ending this week

bdjohns1

What's the cost of creating a forum that fails? Certainly not the time to create it - if you had the magic admin rights, you could create a new forum on vBulletin in a minute, and delete it in another minute if it goes nowhere. It's not overhead - MySQL's not going to come crashing to the ground. At worst, it doesn't get a lot of traffic and the Airline Programs page is 1 line longer. On the flip side, you've got the chance to make FT the best place on the web to talk about VX. Lots of upside, basically no downside.

Ignoring the fact that I think the barrier to entry for new fora should be lower, this is exactly right. While the "core" of FT may be its roots as a "points and miles" site, face it, we're an all-purpose travel site. If you argue against a VX forum on the sole basis that it doesn't have an FFP, you might as well argue against the continued existence of everything not in the Miles&Points section of the site.

^ First-mover advantage.

aviators99

1) I consider it the case that VX already has a FF program. It's just that the terms are not defined as well as they *will* be.

2) I believe it would be really beneficial to have the forum *before* announcements are made that completely define the terms. At that point in time, I think we will see an increase in traffic from people who want to discuss these terms. There will be new people coming to visit the site, and it would help the site to have the forum already defined at that point.

Time is of the essence.

N830MH

Yes, me too. I agree with me that mean it will create new VX Forum. I think it absolutely extremely idea new VX Forums. Let's move forward create new forums immediately. I think it would be better off which specific boards ONA&SA Forums this thread will be moved into new VX Forums. I will let Spiff get motion granted create new VX Forums. I think it is good more opportunities different specific forums.

nsx

VX will be here years from now, and it will have a FF program. It will also have a forum on FT sooner or later.

Years from now when a user of the VX forum searches the archives, will he be able to see discussions all the way back to the beginning? Not unless the forum is created immediately. I rest my case.

Furthermore I recommend that the first users of the new forum search FT for all threads with VX content and ask the applicable moderators to move those threads to the new VX forum. That way the VX forum search really WILL go all the way back to the beginning. The sooner the forum is created, the less work this will be.

travellingcari

With AZ but more specifically with nroscoe.

I booked a VX trip over New Year's from work where I didn't have access to my eleVAte number. When I called to have my reservation credited to my account the helpful rep said "Welcome to Virgin America and eleVAte' so while they don't have a clearly defined FF program, they certainly have one.

I can see the arguments for size, buzz v. sticking, etc. but I think FT is often seen as the go to place for information and if someone is looking for Virgin America info they'd look for a Virgin forum, not ONASA...

SanDiego1K

It makes a lot of sense to me to have the proposed forum. It's inevitable that the airline will have a frequent flyer program. Let's be organized, with a spot for both airline and airmiles info.