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Old Jun 21, 2004 | 10:09 pm
  #1  
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RTW DONE4 ex Thailand.

After lurking on this board for some time I now feel brave enough to ask for help. The plan is to purchase 2 RTW DONE 4 ex BKK ( using FF points to get to BKK). Then BKK-PEK, PEK-KIX, surface NRT- MEL. Then over the course of the next few months, MEL-DRW, DRW-MEL, MEL- BME, BME-MEL and then the final part of the trip MEL-JFK ( transit HKG), JFK-DFW, DFW-BOS, BOS-SFO, SFO- LHR, LHR-CAI, CAI-LHR, LHR-IST, IST- LHR, LHR-BKK.
The plan is to buy the tickets from CX in BKK paying with AMEX to activate their travel insurance. If I contacted CX prior to arrival in BKK would they hold seats on the Asian part of the trip, as I am concerned re availability in D. The rest of the trip I would leave open. Would I then have to book the other sectors through CX in Australia? The main purpose of the trip is a holiday, split into 3 segments, but I would also like to maximise status credits with Qantas. Any comments gratefully received.
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Old Jun 21, 2004 | 11:55 pm
  #2  
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Welcome meadowfield,

A few comments about your plans:

When purchasing from BKK, you do not have to pay until th eticket is issued and the only requirement on a DONE4 for ticketing is 1 hour before the first departure. But you can hold reservations for any valid flights for as long as you like before ticketing, and seats can be allocated at the time of reservation not ticketing.

But we know from experience that the ticketing process for a comples DONE4 is not trivial and will likely take several hours, so allow enough time. But feel free to start the reservations as early as you like.

I can't find a BKK-PEK direct service on a OneWorld carrier. The best I can find is two sectors being CX to HKG and the DragonAir to PEK. DragonAir is not a OneWorld carrier and hence cannot be used on a OneWorld Explorer ticket.

Similarly, I can't find a PEK-KIX option for you on OneWorld Carriers.

You have two US Transcontinental flights included. MEL-JFK is not a single flight, so you either take QF93 MEL-LAX and QF107 LAX-JFK (using the US Trans-Continental) or a domestic MEL-SYD and the QF107 SYD-JFK in which case your US Trans-Continental is still available to you for BOS-SFO as planned.

Also note you can only do one Australian Trans-continental flight. These include flights between SYD/BNE/CNS and PER, as well as MEL/SYD and DRW. You have MEL-DRW-MEL which is two trans-continentals in Australia. Although MEL-BRM is not currently listed as a trans-continental flight, don't be surprised if it does get included now that QF are offering this as a non-stop service.
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Old Jun 22, 2004 | 1:34 am
  #3  
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You can fly CX to PEK via HKG on Tues, Thurs and Sun.
BKK-HKG-PEK-HKG-KIX
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Old Jun 22, 2004 | 6:47 am
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Last edited by christep; Jun 22, 2004 at 8:03 am Reason: It's late and I can't count...
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Old Jun 22, 2004 | 7:52 am
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Originally Posted by christep
Well yes, but this trip looks somewhat over the 20 segment limit to me...
From my count of it there looks to be exactly 20 segments required for the flights listed (counting BKK-PEK as 2 segments, PEK-KIX as 2 segments and MEL-JFK as 2 segments).

Something that will be an issue though is this rule:
J)WITHIN AUSTRALIA - ONLY O N E NONSTOP/SINGLE
PLANE SERVICE IS PERMITTED BETWEEN THE FOLLOWING
POINTS:
BNE/CNS/SYD-PER;
MEL/SYD-DRW.
So you can fly from MEL-DRW, but can't come directly back unfortunately (though no exclusions have been added for BME......yet).

There has also been some debate in the past about the exact wording with the transit rule on Asia:
2)TWO PERMITTED IN ASIA WHEN ONE IS A TRANSFER
WITHOUT STOPOVER OR ON DIRECT SINGLE PLANE
SERVICES BETWEEN THE SOUTH WEST PACIFIC AND
EUROPE;
I haven't tried personally, but the consensus seemed to be that the transfer without stopover could only be used between SWP and EUR - but I'd say give it a try anyway for MEL-HKG-JFK - the rule is written in such a way that you could argue it, but you might have to settle for going MEL-LAX or MEL-HNL instead (but be sure to let us know if they allow MEL-HKG-JFK ).

Looks like you've done some great planning for the trip overall though, you're really maximising the miles and SC's, that's for sure!
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Old Jun 22, 2004 | 9:05 am
  #6  
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BTW, meadowfield, you do not need to contact CX in each country to do your booking.. you may in fact do your entire booking with CX from where you're at now.. and just issue the ticket with them when you get to BKK. It's better that they have the entire intinerary with them when they issue the ticket. If you decide to leave any segments OPEN, you'd have to tell CX as well .. so that they know.
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Old Jun 22, 2004 | 9:05 pm
  #7  
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RTW DONE4 ex Thailand.

Many thanks for all the help so far. The Australian sectors obviously need changing. Am I correct in saying MEL-BME, BME-MEL , MEL-CNS, CNS-MEL at this point in time would be ok ?. Also, assuming the MEL-HKG-JFK with CX is not allowed,would the QF option SYD-JFK be the next best? Also, does anyone know if there is a web site where you can check D availability for flights? I can find sites that show business class availability, but not C or D as such. Thanks again for your help.
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Old Jun 22, 2004 | 9:40 pm
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Originally Posted by meadowfield
Many thanks for all the help so far. The Australian sectors obviously need changing. Am I correct in saying MEL-BME, BME-MEL , MEL-CNS, CNS-MEL at this point in time would be ok ?.
Yes, as far as I can see, these would be permitted under the rules. But expect MEL-BME to be added to the "one flight" list at some point in time. Note that MEL-PER is permitted, so many people use SYD-PER-MEL as the routing to the west.
Also, assuming the MEL-HKG-JFK with CX is not allowed,would the QF option SYD-JFK be the next best?
Yes, if you use QF107 SYD-JFK it is seen as a single sector, even though transit through LAX. The benefit is that the LAX-JFK component is not seen as being your North American trans-continental flight, so you can still to BOS-SFO later. If you are short of sectors in SWP, you can just buy a cheap red-e-deal MEL-SYD to get you to SYD.
Also, does anyone know if there is a web site where you can check D availability for flights? I can find sites that show business class availability, but not C or D as such. Thanks again for your help.
I use ITN for this. It is generally pretty good and if you go far enough through the reservation process you can see the available seat map which can help determine exactly which aircraft config is scheduled to operate a particular flight on the given day.
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Old Jun 22, 2004 | 10:35 pm
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One other thing to keep in mind if you're looking to maximise SC's (at the expense of comfort) is if they let you have the Asia transit you'd get extra SC's if you went MEL-NRT-JFK - of course there's no sleeper beds on either segment in Business Class, so I guess it comes down to what would matter most for you.
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Old Jun 27, 2004 | 6:20 am
  #10  
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The LHR departure tax will be huge (GBP 40 ?) - you may be best transitting LHR for your last flight.

Maybe paranoya, but I reckon QF will put DeathStar on the BME run sometime soon - especially now the A320s are rolling in and BME may not have the market to sustain J/D class.
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Old Jun 27, 2004 | 8:20 pm
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Originally Posted by og
Maybe paranoya, but I reckon QF will put DeathStar on the BME run sometime soon - especially now the A320s are rolling in and BME may not have the market to sustain J/D class.
I don't think it's paranoia at all - they've indicated future destinations for DeathStar include BME (along with other tourist destinations like AYQ and ASP in the outback - I'll be interested to see if DRW goes all J* though - that would certainly cause some issues if it did). Given BME doesn't have that many flights going there, it would be tough for them to split them between QF and JQ. Hmmmmm, methinks I'd best get up there sooner rather than later as well - roll on my next RTW!
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Old Jun 28, 2004 | 6:22 am
  #12  
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DeathStar to DRW would be the absolute pits. It's bad enough in WHY at any time, but LRIWHY (less room in WHY) would be a nightmare - or a goldmine to Vermin.
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Old Jul 6, 2004 | 7:10 am
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Re: 2nd Asia stopover

I have tried to do a second Asia stopover at HKG twice, with opposing success. I tried to route back LHR-MEL after having already stopped in Asia, on an AONE4 issued by BA, and no matter how hard I tried with BA, it was absolutely refused. But I tried to have a second connection through Asia at HKG routing JFK-NRT on AA, then CX NRT-HKG-SYD on a DONE4 issued by CX, and asked QF to re-issue the ticket in SYD with that routing, and they did so. In general, I have found that BA is the least flexible in interpreting the rules, AA is somewhat flexible, and QF depends entirely upon the agent you get; most of the QF agents aren't that familiar with the RTW rules, and you can often bend them a bit. But if you get a really seasoned agent, you're likely out of luck.

Originally Posted by GibSpmuh
From my count of it there looks to be exactly 20 segments required for the flights listed (counting BKK-PEK as 2 segments, PEK-KIX as 2 segments and MEL-JFK as 2 segments).

Something that will be an issue though is this rule:
J)WITHIN AUSTRALIA - ONLY O N E NONSTOP/SINGLE
PLANE SERVICE IS PERMITTED BETWEEN THE FOLLOWING
POINTS:
BNE/CNS/SYD-PER;
MEL/SYD-DRW.
So you can fly from MEL-DRW, but can't come directly back unfortunately (though no exclusions have been added for BME......yet).

There has also been some debate in the past about the exact wording with the transit rule on Asia:
2)TWO PERMITTED IN ASIA WHEN ONE IS A TRANSFER
WITHOUT STOPOVER OR ON DIRECT SINGLE PLANE
SERVICES BETWEEN THE SOUTH WEST PACIFIC AND
EUROPE;
I haven't tried personally, but the consensus seemed to be that the transfer without stopover could only be used between SWP and EUR - but I'd say give it a try anyway for MEL-HKG-JFK - the rule is written in such a way that you could argue it, but you might have to settle for going MEL-LAX or MEL-HNL instead (but be sure to let us know if they allow MEL-HKG-JFK ).

Looks like you've done some great planning for the trip overall though, you're really maximising the miles and SC's, that's for sure!
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Old Jul 26, 2004 | 6:33 pm
  #14  
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The routing is now finalised BKK PEK ( via HKG), PEK KIX( VIA HKG), KIX MEL( via HKG), MEL BME, BME MEL, MEL CNS, CNS MEL, SYD JFK, LGA DFW, DFW BOS, BOS SFO, SFO LHR transit LHR CAI, CAI LHR transit LHR IST, IST LHR, LHR BKK, which I think uses all the segments. I have booked seats on the Asian and Australian segments using the Cathay office in Mel. So far , so good. But 2 weeks ago I emailed the routing to Cathay in BKK, and they replied that they would get their ticketing office to send a quote, which I am still waiting for, despite a couple of reminders. Traveller 2000 agency has sent 3 or 4 emails back asking to clarify the routing which I have tried to do, but they still can't seem to understand it, and Charlie connection hasn't replied at all. Am I missing something here?. All I want is a price. Should I try a different travel agent or oneworld ticket office? Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
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Old Jul 26, 2004 | 11:08 pm
  #15  
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Originally Posted by meadowfield
The routing is now finalised BKK PEK ( via HKG), PEK KIX( VIA HKG), KIX MEL( via HKG), MEL BME, BME MEL, MEL CNS, CNS MEL, SYD JFK, LGA DFW, DFW BOS, BOS SFO, SFO LHR transit LHR CAI, CAI LHR transit LHR IST, IST LHR, LHR BKK, which I think uses all the segments.
You only get 4 sectors in Asia and I add up more than 4:

BKK-HKG-PKK is two sectors (eg CX754 + CX 318)
PEK-HKG-KIX is another two sectors (eg CX317 + CX502)
KIX-HKG-MEL is another one Asia segmer KIX-HKG

making 5 Asia segments where only 4 are allowed.
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