Hello to all.... I need to plan a 15-20 day trip to Egypt and Greece. This trip will be for 3 couples, and since Im the FTer of the group Ive been named planner in chief. While Im not a fan of tour packages, the other 2 couples in my party are not very experienced travellers and are not as flexible in budget terms as I am, so planning a trip the Gaucho way will not be an option. Therefore my request for help.

We will be flying from EZE to a major European hub airport and wish to contract a package tour from Europe to cover Egypt and Greece. We are looking for something that is not super luxury, but still has only 4 and 5 star hotels.

We will choose the European hub to fly to depending on my advice on the best tour operator, but the options that Ive thrown out are: FRA, LHR, and CDG, as I think that those three central european cities have the largest volume of pax and tourists that feed through to Cairo and Athens.... (please correct me if Im wrong here).

I dont know if a Tour operator is a good choice for a 4-5 star level trip, maybe we are better off working with a travel agent...? What do you guys think? My worry is that one of these large operators will have better prices as long as we dont change one single option in their packages, or...? Maybe in the long run we will save $$$ and get a better deal going through a TA?

BTW, I dont want to use a EZE based TA since I think we can all fly from EZE to Europe on mileage awards and then contract the packages ex-Europe, where Im assuming that the costs will be different.

http://www.isram.com/index.htm

as far as packages went, these guys seemed knowledgeable.

I've done tours and I've traveled independently. I'd be very hesitatant about buying a package that covered the entire trip. You lose all flexibility with a package - you can't decide that a particular hotel is unacceptable or a particular town is boring and move on. Hotels won't honor your elite status; you get treated as a run of the mill leisure traveler. Further, you have to pay up front - and Gaucho, you won't get points for your hotel stays!

When I am planning a complex trip, I gather tour brochures and use them to give me ideas about what to see and how long it takes. I then rough out the agenda and customize it to my own interests.

I'd look at roughly out the trip, make decisions about hotels in pivotal cities, and look at shorter tours to fill in. You will keep better control over your experience by doing so.

The one positive about booking a tour is that your friends can't hold you accountable for meeting their expectations. All comments get directed at the tour operator.

SWillie-- many thanks for the tip, I will look into these guys and see what they offer.

SD1K-- thanks for the input. I basically agree 200% with what you are saying. Ive been blessed to be able to travel almost everywhere in the world and have done just about 98% tour package free travel - however, things do get complicated when you have to share major decisions with others in a party of six (we are three couples) and especially when budget issues are not as flexible.... then it does get complicated.

In theory, it should be possible to iron out a trip without a complete package and still get decent 'local' rates for some of the sites, but then it also gets into a planning nightmare. I may be wrong, but there dont seem to be many active FTers that are based in CAI or ATH.... so getting a lot of local info. and trustworthy advice is going to get tricky.

I dunno... for me, at this point, maybe a good compromise is to use a full service TA that will help us blend something together.... I assume this will be more costly than just getting some of those off the shelf packages but still be less money than planning everything on my own and then having to settle for hotel rates for the sightseeing outings that need to be done.

As for the no elite status recognition, no hotel points and no mileage..... please dont mention that again... As Ive said, not all of us (unfortunately?) are so rewards program oriented, and for me this trip is a lot more about having a great 2-3 weeks with some friends - Ive been to all the places we are going already. Im sure I will have enough time to earn more points eventually....

Thoughts...?

Gaucho - how about an option that goes halfway between a full package and a complete DIY trip. For Egypt, lock down your dates, flights, and hotels, with a TA or a tour group to include maybe one or two side trips to the locations you know you will want to see (Giza, etc). Leave some open days and at your hotel, be nice to the concierge, and get him to find 2 cabs with English speaking drivers, and just hire them on a daily basis. This gives you a bit of structure, but enough flexibility to change plans if you need to. You can also split the group up for a day (or part of a day) if you need a break. The drivers can save you time/haggling/money at some of the tourist spots and markets.

I've done this in the past in Egypt, and in other places. Never regretted it yet, but the max number of people in our group has been 4.

Good points.... I will have to look into this option also. Thanks.

Gaucho, here is a handy link to get responses from a number of Egyptian tour operators: http://ww3.interoz.com/tourgroups/submit.ihtml . Fill it out with a rough idea of what you want: number of days, highlights of what you want to see - Aswan, Luxor, whatever - private tour for 6. Within 48 hours you will have heard from at least 6 different travel agencies who will have various offers. Some of the responses will be auto-generated, whereas others will have actually read what you wrote. (Fancy that!) It's a great starting point in helping you think thru what you want to do while in Egypt.

I spent one day in Cairo last week. Admittedly, the experience on a one day tour is completely different than an extended stay - but I was impressed by the response of one tour operator in particular over the 15 or so I heard from (using the above link.) This company predominantly offers longer custom tours.

Suez Canal Travel paid attention to what I asked to see, which included a non traditional stop. They responded specifically to my request, and while not the cheapest, was very good value. I had a terrific young enthuasiastic, well trained guide: Mohammad Ali. He is in his mid 20s and had his graduate degree in archaeology. He was bright, personable (handsome, tall!), and the kind of person you would be happy to share a drink with talking about his country.

The email address is [email protected].

Gaucho,

Would you be willing to share your experience with your final tour decisions?

My partner and I are starting to plan our 10 year anniversary trip... and would be interested to hear how it went for you.

William

You did not ask me, but we used "Fly Well" travel. US rep is "New Adventures"

Group max was 6. Ended up being 2(me & wife). We were met at the airport door by a facilitator, and maintained by a facilitator for the entire 11 days. All moves were coordinated with a driver. Any trip to a site included an Egyptoligist. Tickets for most sites were purchased in advance.

It seems to me that Fly Well had used free lance people. We had at least 6 different drivers, 4 facilitators, and 3 guides. All had worked for other agencies recently. All was well coordinated.

We were there 11 nights. I would recommend skipping the Nile Cruise. Not much activity for 3 days, and so much else to do.

William - not to speak for Gaucho, but I think his trip was delayed as a result of the wine shop he recently became involved with. A quick PM could confirm.

Just be cautious about using a tour operator that outsources everything, like Yalla Tours in the US - you can find yourself so distant form the source you are dealing with a fourth or fifth subcontract and no acceptance of responsibility when things do not go right or for promises made at the top.

They say "This represents our company�s spirit; responsive, dynamic and very creative." It means "the other guys we hire to hire the other guys are not responsive, and we aren't either because you are too far down the food chain for us to care. We are creative when it comes to selling, and to evading responsibility, and we are running so hard you will never reach the agent who sold you the tours."

IMO, get local knowledge, local agencies who get high ratings from real passengers. Get yourself a free example of International Travel News, and read it over - maybe subscribe.

I am planning a trip to Egypt to include 5 days in Cairo and a Nile cruise to Luxor and Aswan for 4 days in the middle of September 2005. I have read recently about attacks on foreign tourists and am a bit worried about that trip. Also it has been announced that there are going to be presidential elections in September.

In the opinion of the FT how safe it is to travel to Egypt in September this year? Should I just cancel the whole trip and go somewhere else?

I would appreciate any thoughts and suggestions on this issue

Sorry, started a separate thread instead

Terrorism is random noise in the statistics of death. You're far more likely to be killed by a suicidal taxi or in a plane crash.