Worst flight ever - kids next to me and an FA disliking my "attitude"
Aug 26, 2006, 5:55 am
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2006
Location: FRA
Programs: LH, BA, DL
Posts: 625
Worst flight ever - kids next to me and an FA disliking my "attitude"
I was flying ZRH - FRA Friday evening in Y. Checked at the gate about improving the seat situation, was told flight was full, ended up in 15D. After I got seated, not two but three persons joined - a father with two kids (one of them obviously a "lap child"). Mother with another kid had two seats in the next row.
Naturally, I was not too happy. Dad took the middle seat, kids climbed around a bit. After takeoff, one kid was on Dad's lap for the remainder of the flight. The kid was actually not behaving too badly (note that this entire post should not be read to imply that I would blame the babies in any of this - this is about LH and how they seat their pax), but every now and then, there would be some intrusion into my space, including an occasional kick - and whilst the kids were far from crying all the time, there was naturally more noise than you would normally expect coming from the seats next to you.
I was fuming at LH for doing to me what I would consider to be the opposite of seat blocking. If LH wants to sell lap seats, surely the onus should be on them to make sure that those pax who paid for a full seat do not suffer from this - regardless of status?!
In any case, it got much worse: Eventually, drink service hits row 15. One cart, FA, next cart (from C), Purserette (is there an abbreviation for this? I'll go with "P" for purposes of this post). FA asks "What would you like to drink?", I go "Still water and red wine, please". FA goes "We have Sekt and beer, sir", I go "the wine bottle is less than half a meter away from you", she goes "you'll have to fly C for this". By that time, I'm in a really bad mood, my sentiments towards LH take over and I respond "I'm a senator, I would have expected seat blocking, instead I'm now sitting next to these kids, and I'd like some wine, please." The tone in which I said that was probably a bit on the rough side, too. I know I should not have done this - both pulling a DYKWIA and linking two completely unrelated issues (wine service in Y and kids).
Here's what happened next: FA says to P in a loud voice: "This passenger is having a problem with sitting next to these kids and would like some wine." She then pours wine for me. Next she addresses mom in the row behind me: "I'm very sorry, madam, that you had to hear this." She then went and got mom some LH stuff in an LH plastic bag as compensation. Throughout the remainder of the flight, she shot occasional punishing glances my way - and prior to landing, she approached me (nobody else IIRC) and asked me to put the back of my seat in the upright position - I had not touched the seat during the entire flight and it already was perfectly upright.
As I deplaned, I had a brief conversation with P and the FA. This led to the "conclusion" that both I and the FA acted inappropriately. I'm still completely fuming over this even almost a day later, though, so I believe I will send a letter to LH. Being exposed like this to other pax on the plane is just completely unacceptable - regardless of what the FA felt about me. I've never felt worse on a plane in my entire flying career.
Regardless of this (which is the main reason for this post), there's also the issue that status at LH can get completely worthless at times. Not having seat blocking available on full flights is one thing, being seated next to kids who WILL intrude into your space is quite a different matter.
Well, I'll be flying BA FRA - LHR on Monday for the first time ever (cheapest LH Y fare was more than €500 - BA offers a cheapo inflexible C fare @ €270 - five of those and I'll be BA Silver). I would not even have checked ba.com but for this incident. I'll try to avoid setting my foot on LH metal anytime soon if I can.
One last thing: Is there a way to add "Former_" to one's handle? [and I really mean it!!!]
Naturally, I was not too happy. Dad took the middle seat, kids climbed around a bit. After takeoff, one kid was on Dad's lap for the remainder of the flight. The kid was actually not behaving too badly (note that this entire post should not be read to imply that I would blame the babies in any of this - this is about LH and how they seat their pax), but every now and then, there would be some intrusion into my space, including an occasional kick - and whilst the kids were far from crying all the time, there was naturally more noise than you would normally expect coming from the seats next to you.
I was fuming at LH for doing to me what I would consider to be the opposite of seat blocking. If LH wants to sell lap seats, surely the onus should be on them to make sure that those pax who paid for a full seat do not suffer from this - regardless of status?!
In any case, it got much worse: Eventually, drink service hits row 15. One cart, FA, next cart (from C), Purserette (is there an abbreviation for this? I'll go with "P" for purposes of this post). FA asks "What would you like to drink?", I go "Still water and red wine, please". FA goes "We have Sekt and beer, sir", I go "the wine bottle is less than half a meter away from you", she goes "you'll have to fly C for this". By that time, I'm in a really bad mood, my sentiments towards LH take over and I respond "I'm a senator, I would have expected seat blocking, instead I'm now sitting next to these kids, and I'd like some wine, please." The tone in which I said that was probably a bit on the rough side, too. I know I should not have done this - both pulling a DYKWIA and linking two completely unrelated issues (wine service in Y and kids).
Here's what happened next: FA says to P in a loud voice: "This passenger is having a problem with sitting next to these kids and would like some wine." She then pours wine for me. Next she addresses mom in the row behind me: "I'm very sorry, madam, that you had to hear this." She then went and got mom some LH stuff in an LH plastic bag as compensation. Throughout the remainder of the flight, she shot occasional punishing glances my way - and prior to landing, she approached me (nobody else IIRC) and asked me to put the back of my seat in the upright position - I had not touched the seat during the entire flight and it already was perfectly upright.
As I deplaned, I had a brief conversation with P and the FA. This led to the "conclusion" that both I and the FA acted inappropriately. I'm still completely fuming over this even almost a day later, though, so I believe I will send a letter to LH. Being exposed like this to other pax on the plane is just completely unacceptable - regardless of what the FA felt about me. I've never felt worse on a plane in my entire flying career.
Regardless of this (which is the main reason for this post), there's also the issue that status at LH can get completely worthless at times. Not having seat blocking available on full flights is one thing, being seated next to kids who WILL intrude into your space is quite a different matter.
Well, I'll be flying BA FRA - LHR on Monday for the first time ever (cheapest LH Y fare was more than €500 - BA offers a cheapo inflexible C fare @ €270 - five of those and I'll be BA Silver). I would not even have checked ba.com but for this incident. I'll try to avoid setting my foot on LH metal anytime soon if I can.
One last thing: Is there a way to add "Former_" to one's handle? [and I really mean it!!!]
Aug 26, 2006, 7:30 am
#3
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,201
Former_LH_Fan 
(see, I can do it for you 
),
first of all I can relate very well to how you felt while you were in this seat, but come on, it was only from ZRH to FRA.
Everything else I have a big problem with:
1. You are not entitled to an empty seat next to you.
2. You did get exactly what you paid for.
3. It is standard airline policy to have lap children. We all have to live with it sometimes. Consider yourself lucky it was not a long haul flight.
4. You made a fuss, not the FA. Of course she acted unprofessionally in response, but I think you are way to quick to find apologies for yourself and blaming her.
5. Behavior like yours just simply adds to the bad image status customers have with many FAs. So it's not only about you.
Reminds me of my own experience yesterday on ZRH-MUC. SEN with seat in C boards plane with colleague sitting in Y. While passing the FA he casually states: "My colleague has a seat in Y, but I want to talk to him during the flight. There are many seats empty in C so I am sure he can sit with me."
FA says, she has to ask the purser. SEN says: "Oh, that will be ok" and takes seats with his colleague in the first row.
2 minutes later FA shows up and says: "Sorry sir, we can't do this".
SEN starts big discussion, first with FA, then with purser. Finally he declares:"So I have to sit in Y with my colleague." And they retreat to the back.
I always ask myself who do this kind of people think they are.
(see, I can do it for you ),first of all I can relate very well to how you felt while you were in this seat, but come on, it was only from ZRH to FRA.
Everything else I have a big problem with:
1. You are not entitled to an empty seat next to you.
2. You did get exactly what you paid for.
3. It is standard airline policy to have lap children. We all have to live with it sometimes. Consider yourself lucky it was not a long haul flight.
4. You made a fuss, not the FA. Of course she acted unprofessionally in response, but I think you are way to quick to find apologies for yourself and blaming her.
5. Behavior like yours just simply adds to the bad image status customers have with many FAs. So it's not only about you.
Reminds me of my own experience yesterday on ZRH-MUC. SEN with seat in C boards plane with colleague sitting in Y. While passing the FA he casually states: "My colleague has a seat in Y, but I want to talk to him during the flight. There are many seats empty in C so I am sure he can sit with me."
FA says, she has to ask the purser. SEN says: "Oh, that will be ok" and takes seats with his colleague in the first row.
2 minutes later FA shows up and says: "Sorry sir, we can't do this".
SEN starts big discussion, first with FA, then with purser. Finally he declares:"So I have to sit in Y with my colleague." And they retreat to the back.
I always ask myself who do this kind of people think they are.
Aug 26, 2006, 7:41 am
#4
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2006
Location: FRA
Programs: LH, BA, DL
Posts: 625
I appreciate the feedback - that's why I posted here, after all.
@ulev: Just one thing - I never said I think I'm entitled to an empty seat next to me. It's nice to have one, but I don't think I'm entitled. What I think I AM entitled to - and so is everybody else, status or not - is a seat next to me out of which nobody is kicking at me.
Yes, I overreacted, and yes, it was a short flight. But I guess one lesson I'm learning from this - and this is confirmed by ulev's statement about the bad reputation of status pax with LH FAs - is that I should not expect ANY kind of special treatment from LH because of my status - which means I cannot possibly be in worse shape flying an airline on which I have no status.
@ulev: Just one thing - I never said I think I'm entitled to an empty seat next to me. It's nice to have one, but I don't think I'm entitled. What I think I AM entitled to - and so is everybody else, status or not - is a seat next to me out of which nobody is kicking at me.
Yes, I overreacted, and yes, it was a short flight. But I guess one lesson I'm learning from this - and this is confirmed by ulev's statement about the bad reputation of status pax with LH FAs - is that I should not expect ANY kind of special treatment from LH because of my status - which means I cannot possibly be in worse shape flying an airline on which I have no status.
Aug 26, 2006, 7:49 am
#5
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,201
Originally Posted by LH_Fan
...that I should not expect ANY kind of special treatment from LH because of my status - which means I cannot possibly be in worse shape flying an airline on which I have no status.
In real live I prefer being kicked by a baby rather than having an over sized adult in the seat next to me. What do I try to tell you? Any bad experience could have been worse - always.
Come on, get over it and have a nice weekend.
Aug 26, 2006, 8:02 am
#6
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: my heart is on the shores of the north Italian lakes
Programs: LX Senator Lifetime, Relais&Chateaux Club5C, ex ! "Amanjunkie", ex LHW LC, hate chain hotels
Posts: 2,515
Elite status passengers and families with children - both a nuisance
The biggest fun flying is observing other people.
The arrogance of Senators is often embarrassing - same the guy sitting in C with a Y boarding pass (I consider removing my tag from my cabin bag). Status gives you some perks (baggage allowance, lounge access and tiny executive bonus) a good dedicated phone line (at least when reaching the Swiss call center Basel) and some unclaimable e-vouchers..... But in no way we should think to get more than what we pay for: If I want to have a empty seat nearby (on LX A 320 or LX A 319 / 321 A and C seats) I will fly C - period! The same applies if I want a wider selection of drinks.
Lap children are of course a nuisance as are most parents who put their offspring in the center of all attentions. But pity them - they are only victims of their genetic program that forces them to procreate
.
And the good news: A single flight never lasts a lifetime!
BTW: Why LH fan, I wonder what you could have liked about LH ? Well, their M&M program is not bad, giving you double for flying C and triple miles for flying F (with LX of course !)
The arrogance of Senators is often embarrassing - same the guy sitting in C with a Y boarding pass (I consider removing my tag from my cabin bag). Status gives you some perks (baggage allowance, lounge access and tiny executive bonus) a good dedicated phone line (at least when reaching the Swiss call center Basel) and some unclaimable e-vouchers..... But in no way we should think to get more than what we pay for: If I want to have a empty seat nearby (on LX A 320 or LX A 319 / 321 A and C seats) I will fly C - period! The same applies if I want a wider selection of drinks.
Lap children are of course a nuisance as are most parents who put their offspring in the center of all attentions. But pity them - they are only victims of their genetic program that forces them to procreate
.And the good news: A single flight never lasts a lifetime!
BTW: Why LH fan, I wonder what you could have liked about LH ? Well, their M&M program is not bad, giving you double for flying C and triple miles for flying F (with LX of course
!)
Last edited by behuman; Aug 26, 2006 at 8:07 am Reason: spelling error
Aug 26, 2006, 8:29 am
#8
Moderator: GLBT travelers, India-based Airlines and India; FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Asia
Programs: Yes!
Posts: 15,512
Originally Posted by Rambuster
I hope you don't get too angry with BA's new hand baggage policy on your upcoming flights...
Aug 26, 2006, 10:17 am
#10
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,916
The LH Sens definately seem to have strong personalities - I remember a few years back on the upper deck of a 747-400 FRA-HKG just before take-off I was in the row behind the emergency exit that has great legroom. The entire F section was full. I heard a loud discussion in German. Not understanding German, I had no idea what was going on. Eventually a gentleman was basically standing over me (in my personal space) arguing with a couple FAs. Whatever was said to him he stomped (and I mean stomped) back to his seat which was the window behind me.
The gentleman next to me told me later the unhappy senator "was one of LH's top Senators and I was in "his" seat and he had been promised both at check-in, the Senator Lounge and at the gate that they would move the person who was in it. Apparently he was telling the FAs that he is guaranteed the seat by the chairman of LH.
It was interesting that he glared at me whenever I got up to go downstairs and stretch my legs or go to the lav. I only wish I understood German so I could have heard the discussion blow by blow but I will always remember the guy basically standing knee to knee in front of me arguing with the FAs.
The gentleman next to me told me later the unhappy senator "was one of LH's top Senators and I was in "his" seat and he had been promised both at check-in, the Senator Lounge and at the gate that they would move the person who was in it. Apparently he was telling the FAs that he is guaranteed the seat by the chairman of LH.
It was interesting that he glared at me whenever I got up to go downstairs and stretch my legs or go to the lav. I only wish I understood German so I could have heard the discussion blow by blow but I will always remember the guy basically standing knee to knee in front of me arguing with the FAs.
Aug 26, 2006, 10:26 am
#11
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: SZG
Posts: 3,936
while i dont agree with the OPs reaction, i think the FA could have just smiled, given him a glass of red wine while making him aware that this is an exception, resulting in a happy customer (SEN or not desnt matter) that doesnt move his next flight to BA... anyway, some crew is just not thinking about stuff like that, just like some customers are not thinking either...
sentom
sentom
Aug 26, 2006, 11:07 am
#12
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: W29
Programs: It's Complicated...
Posts: 6,819
Originally Posted by LH_Fan
As I deplaned, I had a brief conversation with P and the FA. This led to the "conclusion" that both I and the FA acted inappropriately.
I think this is correct. Now, while saying that I cant say that I havent made the same mistake and regretted it. Hopefully the FA did as well after it was said and done. Who knows, perhaps she was having just as bad of a day as you and this was one thing that sent her over the edge. No excuse for either of you but sometimes our emotions get the better of us and we do things we would like to take back. Nobody got hurt and notbody went to jail.......let it go and have a good weekend.
Aug 26, 2006, 11:22 am
#13
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 26
Originally Posted by sentom
while i dont agree with the OPs reaction, i think the FA could have just smiled, given him a glass of red wine while making him aware that this is an exception, resulting in a happy customer (SEN or not desnt matter) that doesnt move his next flight to BA... anyway, some crew is just not thinking about stuff like that, just like some customers are not thinking either...
we are not allowed to serve business class products to economy class passengers.
Any flight attendant who ignores this company policy receives a "nice" invitation for an official discussion joined by his supervisor. Worst case, the FA might loose his job.
Company policy is: You get what yor pay for. If a passenger wants red wine he is supposed to buy a business class Ticket.
Even the emporer of china :-)
Best regards,
Crewie
Aug 26, 2006, 11:39 am
#14
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: SZG
Posts: 3,936
Originally Posted by Crewlounge
Company policy is: You get what yor pay for. If a passenger wants red wine he is supposed to buy a business class Ticket.
Even the emporer of china :-)
Best regards,
Crewie
Even the emporer of china :-)
Best regards,
Crewie
it always matters of course how you make your first approach, which in the OPs case, was maybe not the smartest one...
sentom
ps: i hope nobody got fired after serving me piper-heidsieck in C!!
Aug 26, 2006, 11:51 am
#15
Join Date: Feb 2006
Programs: Starwood Gold, Sixt Platinum, Lufthansa FTL
Posts: 143
Well I think that even as a hon. you should get what you paid for.
The Airline gave you the one paid seat.
Kids are part of our lives. You were also a kid once. The airline has to put them somewere. You could have asked his/her parents nicely please make sure your kid does not kick me. But its not the FA fault
You paid for a ticket that does not serve wine, so they didnt give it to you. I think your outburst was wrong and just being a senator does not make u a diffrent passenger on the flight.
The Airline gave you the one paid seat.
Kids are part of our lives. You were also a kid once. The airline has to put them somewere. You could have asked his/her parents nicely please make sure your kid does not kick me. But its not the FA fault
You paid for a ticket that does not serve wine, so they didnt give it to you. I think your outburst was wrong and just being a senator does not make u a diffrent passenger on the flight.