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Multiple Bookings Destroying FT Spirit

Multiple Bookings Destroying FT Spirit

Old Aug 31, 2006, 5:23 am
  #1  
formerly known as Frugal Travel Guy
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Multiple Bookings Destroying FT Spirit

Toyko, Portland, LaQuinta, Bangkok etc etc etc.

This is supposed to be a close knit community of people that enjoy travel and are trying to make the most of the experience.

The behavior of some members (or quasi members at best) is destroying this spirit by making MULTIPLE BOOKINGS on hotel mistake rates.

Is it not evident to everyone with a brain that MULTIPLE BOOKINGS are one of the reasons that the mistake rates are:

1. Taking longer to sort out.
2. Being denied by the provider
3. Being comproimised by the provider
4. Giving FT a bad name

Providers are more apt to admit their mistake and honor the reservations if we are not PIGS about it. Imagine for a second, how we look to them by making MULTIPLE BOOKINGS.

I spoke with a rep from LaQuinta this past week that reconfirmed the GREED of some of our members. Appalling #'s of reservations per person

We all know that Toyko (in part) was killed by people booking the WHOLE summer at the Hilton. It got so out of hand there was no way they could handle the volume.

It is happening now with Bangkok.

And the response from Jason in Portland, although not appreciated, was certainly justified by OUR behavior.

If there is any question about who I'm speaking too, let me be clear: If you are making MULTIPLE BOOKINGS, I am speaking to YOU.

Your chances are better if you book once, and so are the chances of other FT members having their reservation accepted.

Litigate, sue..........B_ll Sh_t. My guess is those suing may (and I emphasize May)be the same people trying to take advantage of a good thing the most times by MULTIPLE BOOKINGS.

These mistakes rates are a GIFT. Treat them, and this community that way and good things will continue to come to us all.

Climbing off high horse now. I hope those in need, have heard the message.


Think about "How smart the AVERAGE human is? And then realize, half the population is dumber than that."

Last edited by ingy; Aug 31, 2006 at 5:29 am Reason: add
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Old Aug 31, 2006, 6:02 am
  #2  
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some thoughts/questions >

So what are you supposed to limit yourself to?

Seems pretty hard to quantify a limit.. and I don't think the "average" person feels as strongly about this. I could be wrong though.

Also, there was someone who took advantage of a Thailand error for a while recently, because he is waiting for his house in Thailand to be finished.. Situations like that I feel happy for the person to have been able to work something like that out..

Now, if someone got an error deal in their town, and booked for a year or something like that, yeah that would be ridiculous..

But I mean, really, how much do these people affect the rest? I think it would be pretty easy for the PROPERTY to set a limit if they CHOSE to.

Are you really saying that every person you've talked to have said that that they HAVE to honor all or none, and that if there is a single person that books a "long time" then they have to not honor every booking?
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Old Aug 31, 2006, 7:00 am
  #3  
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i agree with you, although as a disclaimer, i made two bookings myself (couldn't get all five days on one booking source, so i booked for two days at one source and the following three days at another). not sure if that means you're talking to me or not, but even if you are, i agree in principle.

i'm still a relatively new member, but i remember being quite shocked--and i continue to be--that some folks view these mistakes as a way to spend an entire summer or more somewhere on someone else's dime, essentially.

sadly, it seems to be the way of the world, and i'm not sure what if anything can be done about it. as ft continues to grow, and mistakes like this continue to happen, be honored and be publicized, more folks will join, 'participate' only in mr, and kind of dilute the original spirit of ft, which i'm not sure i've been here long enough to know. some people will be greedy if the opportunity presents itself, and don't care much for the rest of the group. i don't think you can do anything about that, on an internet board or in the greater world, unfortunately.
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Old Aug 31, 2006, 7:01 am
  #4  
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What about those who aren't sure which weekend will work for them, so they book a few, and when they make plans, cancel the ones they won't use?
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Old Aug 31, 2006, 7:17 am
  #5  
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The problem isn't "multiple bookings" on hotel stays. Like how many times are you going to drag yourself to the hotel anyway -- very different from the purpose of mileage runs.

The problem is that thousands of people read flyertalk. So a particularly good deal will get thousands of bookings. There is no way to avoid this problem except make the information "exclusive" to a limited number of people -- something I personally do not support.

And I'd note that those who begrudge "friends and family" bookings got their wish at the La Quinta. They're honoring ONE booking per credit card.
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Old Aug 31, 2006, 7:21 am
  #6  
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Originally Posted by kipper
What about those who aren't sure which weekend will work for them, so they book a few, and when they make plans, cancel the ones they won't use?

I believe it looks like greed to the provider and effects the chances of the deal being approved for all FT's.

Pick one time slot, make one reservation, and hope it works out for all of us.
This is a "community" after all.

Last edited by ingy; Aug 31, 2006 at 7:33 am
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Old Aug 31, 2006, 7:28 am
  #7  
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personally i think you're just contributing to "destroying spirit..." if you want to put it that way..

hotels and airlines are going to do what theyre going to do. making it sound like theyre going to decide to refuse to honor 1000 reservations SOLELY because 1 person booked for a year or booked 1000 flights is absolutely ridiculous.

its purely a matter of how MANY people book the error and how much of an error it was.. (if they think about honoring it in the first place obviously, because sometimes they dont even consider it)

also, 1 person does not give FT a bad name. 1 person who books a ridiculous amount of time / flights / etc looks ridiculous, nothing more.

and isnt this entire discussion kind of ridiculous in the first place?

either you book mistake fares or you dont. a LOT of people dont book them.

i think discussing the "ethics" of that is just as ridiculous......

this stuff goes nowhere.
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Old Aug 31, 2006, 7:31 am
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I disagree generally with the original post, and agree more with iahphx.

Quite often when I see a good deal, I forward it in email to friends, family and colleagues. Though clumsy in nature, this is no different than the very "fare alert" service created by flyertalkers - it is push information versus pull information. So in the case of La Quinta, I actually assisted numerous people to book (because most people are very leary of using Priceline and do not believe they will "get that exact hotel"). Though I note I only had one booking for myself - 3 nights for 2 rooms for me, wife & kids. However my activities led to the booking of over 80 room nights. Contrary to the OP, I'm not sitting around feeling guilty that I "ruined things"

As I said I think iahphx has it more spot on here. It used to be that these deals hung around for a lot longer and were honored more often (IMO). Now you have this huge flyertalk base, you have mirroring of deals at fatwallet or slickdeals, and even more so, you have "push information" services like fare alert - this is what's beginning to take things down, not behavior of specific people.
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Old Aug 31, 2006, 7:34 am
  #9  
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digging through my medicine cabinet right now to see if

I have any chill pills left for the OP

You do your thing I'll do mine

btw, Jason at PWM
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Old Aug 31, 2006, 8:03 am
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Originally Posted by thesilb
I disagree generally with the original post, and agree more with iahphx.

Quite often when I see a good deal, I forward it in email to friends, family and colleagues. Though clumsy in nature, this is no different than the very "fare alert" service created by flyertalkers - it is push information versus pull information. So in the case of La Quinta, I actually assisted numerous people to book (because most people are very leary of using Priceline and do not believe they will "get that exact hotel"). Though I note I only had one booking for myself - 3 nights for 2 rooms for me, wife & kids. However my activities led to the booking of over 80 room nights. Contrary to the OP, I'm not sitting around feeling guilty that I "ruined things"
I agree that it's not so much multiple bookings but the aggregate number of nights because of the speed at which information is disseminated these days.

Additionally, I disagree that these deals are pulled quickly. For the La Quinta deal, I booked my first reservation on Saturday night and my last reservation for a co-worker on Tuesday morning. During the deal, I discussed with a number of people that Priceline/La Quinta must be asleep at the wheel. I think it's difficult to claim an error when the supposed error has been going on for over 36 hours and then wait a month to notify the customer.

Similar for the Hilton Osaka deal was outstanding for an extremely long time while the Hilton Tokyo deal was shut down quickly. For the Travelocity Japan trip, Travelocity knew of the flaw in their systems months before it was widely broadcast and then after the deal was pulled reload rates for some hotels that had the same error which people then booked.

Ultimately, these errors are made by the travel provider and they bear a lot of the responsibility for ensuring they have the proper controls and monitoring in place to prevent or minimize these errors.

It's also disingenous for Priceline to weasel out of an accepted binding contract, but they're merciless when a customer makes an error. A lot of my resentment towards Priceline is associated with this dual standard they've applied.
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Old Aug 31, 2006, 8:11 am
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Originally Posted by ingy

These mistakes rates are a GIFT. Treat them, and this community that way and good things will continue to come to us all.

Climbing off high horse now.
No they're not - they're you trying to jump on and exploit an error by the hotel, or their booking agency - but you're miffed as a day or a week booking would suit you perfectly, wheras others want months, or need flexibility & time to decide when can go.

Am lost to how you were on a high horse therefore.
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Old Aug 31, 2006, 8:20 am
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While I don't subscribe to the tone of the OP, I agree that multiple - and bulk- bookings result in ruining it for everybody.

Unfortunately there is little to be done to counteract this 'free rider dilemma'-

look at it from the perspective of someone who books multiple times ( not talking about someone who places 50 different bookings - that is just plain silly)- when they weigh the benefits to be gained by them (more nights, options) by going against the collective interests of the group (that the bookings be honored) the latter often wins.

This is supposed to be a close knit community of people that enjoy travel and are trying to make the most of the experience
Therein lies the rub- you cant assume an open forum to be a closed community - any one can link to the deal (or just copy it)

but what to do? if youre the person who found the deal- should you not post it? then you decrease your leverage against the hotel (because its just you, not a group of consumers, against them) plus you want to benefit when others post deals.

and from the forums perspective? closing it off (which I disagree with in general) is only viable if you have a monopoly on the information- clearly not the case here- in fact because the mistakes are random- you want as many people in the pool as you can looking for them.

The only thing to do to partly alleviate the issue is stick a thread which explains why multiple bookings are detrimental for you in the long run.
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Old Aug 31, 2006, 8:25 am
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Before this conversation gets out of hand, I just want to remind everyone to please keep it civil.

Thanks!

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Old Aug 31, 2006, 8:36 am
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The other thing unique to the priceline/La Quinta deal was that your reservation was (supposed to be) non-refundable, non-changable. And it was expensive enough that you would have been foolish to book more than what you actually expected to use.

Much different from, say, the Marriott/New York deal earlier this summer, where you could reserve large blocks of rooms with no obligation.

This was partially why I would have guessed that priceline would honor their deal while others have not. Alas, they did not.

Regardless, human nature is human nature, and asking a large and anonymous group to not be greedy is a waste of time. Most people who learn of a deal like this will "profit maximize" for themselves and not worry about the herd. That sounds bad, but I don't really blame them.
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Old Aug 31, 2006, 8:38 am
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I think the two things that are killing most of these "deals" is the entitlement beyond the initial booking and the quality/cost level of the hotels involved.

In true Flyertalk fashion (the following numbers are for demonstration purposes only), it is not enough to get a suite for $10, one must get the Presidential suite for $15. Someone sees a room for $5, but wait a club room is $7. The real killer for the "deal" though is you are not getting a room at the Amerisuites (valued at $50), but are reserving a room during peak season at a resort that normally goes for $350 (also keep in mind quality locations/properties will have more bookings). The sophistication on Flyertalk goes even further, website A is no longer booking the rate, but website B still is - some of these errors go on for days (and we all know to book a rate that allows for cancellation - after all we need flexibility).

In terms of sense of entitlement, people can book a room on priceline (La Quinta example), call up and get a copy of a confirmation that shows them booked into a suite, and are now expecting a "fight at check-in."

The main killer of the "deal" is that people are only concerned about their own specific situation. I was amazed to see how many people called the Conrad (several people actually admitted to it - the hold times must have been long), as the mantra was always "don't call." Now it seems, people call, talk to someone in customer service, and then report back on their own situation as fact for all - this in turn creates a situation in which the next person needs to call, gets a different answer, and then needs to report back that the situation has now been changed - the reality is that for these recent errors that run into large sums of money, customer service representative answers are typically worthless.

The best move this year in terms of pricing errors was done by Travelocity. Sure they alienated a strong traveling customer base (although I'm guessing most people were not previously booking through Travelocity unless it was the cheapest), but they succeeded in creating a situation in which no Flyertalker (I should say most) will go to their site to book a travel error.

I still do not see the diffirentiation between a Flyertalker booking one room and many in terms of a deal being honored. It really is a numbers game, and if you want a reservation to be honored find a property with a poor location and low cost, then "greed" won't be a factor.
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