Nor1: Elite Members Paying For Upgrades?
Dec 26, 2006, 3:16 pm
#1
Moderator: Hilton Honors forums
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Marietta, Georgia, United States
Posts: 24,997
Nor1: Elite Members Paying For Upgrades?
In the Hilton forum, the Hilton San Francisco- New Upgrade policy? (Nor 1) thread discusses a Hilton HHonors property charging Hilton HHonors elite members for certain types of upgrades.
When I first read this thread, I thought that it was possibly a new — and unwelcome — part of the Hilton HHonors frequent guest program. However, the thread reveals that the property is question is apparently using a service by an outside company called Nor1, which tells me that the Hilton HHonors program will not — or is not — the only frequent traveller program that will be — or is — affected by this.
Does anyone have any experience with the Nor1 upgrade program?
What do you think of this idea?
When I first read this thread, I thought that it was possibly a new — and unwelcome — part of the Hilton HHonors frequent guest program. However, the thread reveals that the property is question is apparently using a service by an outside company called Nor1, which tells me that the Hilton HHonors program will not — or is not — the only frequent traveller program that will be — or is — affected by this.
Does anyone have any experience with the Nor1 upgrade program?
What do you think of this idea?
Dec 26, 2006, 3:34 pm
#2
Suspended
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: seattle
Programs: UNITED 2K HILTON DIAMOND
Posts: 2,774
In the Hilton forum, the Hilton San Francisco- New Upgrade policy? (Nor 1) thread discusses a Hilton HHonors property charging Hilton HHonors elite members for certain types of upgrades.
When I first read this thread, I thought that it was possibly a new — and unwelcome — part of the Hilton HHonors frequent guest program. However, the thread reveals that the property is question is apparently using a service by an outside company called Nor1, which tells me that the Hilton HHonors program will not — or is not — the only frequent traveller program that will be — or is — affected by this.
Does anyone have any experience with the Nor1 upgrade program?
What do you think of this idea?
When I first read this thread, I thought that it was possibly a new — and unwelcome — part of the Hilton HHonors frequent guest program. However, the thread reveals that the property is question is apparently using a service by an outside company called Nor1, which tells me that the Hilton HHonors program will not — or is not — the only frequent traveller program that will be — or is — affected by this.
Does anyone have any experience with the Nor1 upgrade program?
What do you think of this idea?
Dec 26, 2006, 5:28 pm
#3
In Memoriam
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 35,555
From what I read in their powerpoint presentation; the basis of the company is generating revenue streams from "unused" inventory.
I agree with the above poster; soon it will be here is your cookie, sorry sold out at 15 bucks extra per room.
and in the OP, he was told they were rolling this out Hilton wide.....
this is not a good thing for Hilton or it's loyal customers.
I agree with the above poster; soon it will be here is your cookie, sorry sold out at 15 bucks extra per room.
and in the OP, he was told they were rolling this out Hilton wide.....
this is not a good thing for Hilton or it's loyal customers.
Dec 28, 2006, 5:04 pm
#4
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: SFO
Programs: AC SE, AA EXP MM, UA Gold MM, Hyatt Glob, Marriott Titanium, HH Dia, IHG Plat
Posts: 4,777
I'm surprised by the lack of response so far to this thread.
I'm afraid this approach is already happening at other chains, if not yet through Nor then through the front desk.
For example, I was just charged $25 (albeit not much) to occupy a corner king room at the Hyatt Regency Sacramento. I guess this isn't even a suite, but it has a balcony. The comp Diamond upgrade is to a standard Regency Club room.
At the Grand Hyatt Tampa Bay, I was told that as a Diamond I could be accommodated on the RC floor, but only on the side facing the Airport, not Tampa Bay. Or they could accommodate me in a bayview corner room on a lower floor. I chose the latter; in this case it was probably better than a standard RC bayview room.
I'm afraid this approach is already happening at other chains, if not yet through Nor then through the front desk.
For example, I was just charged $25 (albeit not much) to occupy a corner king room at the Hyatt Regency Sacramento. I guess this isn't even a suite, but it has a balcony. The comp Diamond upgrade is to a standard Regency Club room.
At the Grand Hyatt Tampa Bay, I was told that as a Diamond I could be accommodated on the RC floor, but only on the side facing the Airport, not Tampa Bay. Or they could accommodate me in a bayview corner room on a lower floor. I chose the latter; in this case it was probably better than a standard RC bayview room.
Dec 28, 2006, 10:18 pm
#5
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Pittsburgh
Programs: MR/SPG LT Titanium, AA LT PLT, UA SLV, Avis PreferredPlus
Posts: 31,008
Sadly, I see it as a revenue maximization trend as has been seen in many other industries/programs. From a business point of view, maximizing this quarter's earnings (not maximizing shareholder value, which has a longer-term perspective) by squeezing out incremental revenue this way makes sense. Unfortunately, the long-term impact to loyal customers is not reflected in Wall Street's need for immediate results.
But if every program moves to it, which I fear, the long-term impacts are a wash. We just see the benefits of being a repeat, loyal customer going down the tubes. See the USAirways DM program transformation over the past couple of years. That, and this specific example, may be the future as we have passed the golden age of loyalty programs.
But if every program moves to it, which I fear, the long-term impacts are a wash. We just see the benefits of being a repeat, loyal customer going down the tubes. See the USAirways DM program transformation over the past couple of years. That, and this specific example, may be the future as we have passed the golden age of loyalty programs.
Jan 21, 2007, 12:13 am
#6
Join Date: May 2004
Programs: Various Programs of Interest & LT Collector.
Posts: 1,483
Lets see Hiltons next Marketing Add:
We are the only ones with Rolling Tier.
But when you reach diamond you only get a cookie.......
Sorry. For $15 we gave all the upgrades to everyone else. And no, you don't get executive lounge access because of unusually high occupancy in executive level.... The clubs just too full.
This is really really bad. With the low prices many people may upgrade.
I've made diamond through 2008 but I think that will be it. As this is now rolled out at 2 hotels there will likely be many more thus diluting the benefit to me. The bonus points are not what I value in a hotel frequent stay program. Its the 'nice' touch of upgrades, lounge access, breakfasts...
Bad Decision Hilton
We are the only ones with Rolling Tier.
But when you reach diamond you only get a cookie.......
Sorry. For $15 we gave all the upgrades to everyone else. And no, you don't get executive lounge access because of unusually high occupancy in executive level.... The clubs just too full.
This is really really bad. With the low prices many people may upgrade.
I've made diamond through 2008 but I think that will be it. As this is now rolled out at 2 hotels there will likely be many more thus diluting the benefit to me. The bonus points are not what I value in a hotel frequent stay program. Its the 'nice' touch of upgrades, lounge access, breakfasts...
Bad Decision Hilton
Jan 21, 2007, 12:50 am
#7
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
Bad idea; one I definitely, as someone with elite status at a given hotel brand whose hotels do this, do not welcome.
This will mean more competititon for upgrades at the very least; and, worse yet, it may mean the hotel is incentivized not to give the best upgrades to elite members of the frequent guest programs unless they pay for them.
This will mean more competititon for upgrades at the very least; and, worse yet, it may mean the hotel is incentivized not to give the best upgrades to elite members of the frequent guest programs unless they pay for them.
Jan 21, 2007, 6:21 am
#8
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: MCI
Programs: AA Gold 1MM, AS MVP, UA Silver, WN A-List, Marriott LT Titanium, HH Diamond
Posts: 52,575
The scariest part about the HH "enhancement" is that some properties are also telling elites they can't use the lounge unless they are physically on that floor.
On one hand, I'm OK with a mechanism that allows people to confirm upgrades at booking-time for a price, as long as elites can still get both their "best room available" upgrade when they OLCI the day before the stay AND get a keycard to the lounge if all the upgrades are sold.
On the other hand, if they are using this outside consultant as a tool to eliminate benefits of the HH program, that's a very bad thing. The two cases that Explore wrote about would not have made me happy if they had happened at hotels where I had a Gold/Plat status.
Starwood has for several years sent me opportunities to confirm upgrades (either lounge or suite) in my booking email. I've taken advantage of those, which presumably is one less room for a Plat to upgrade to, and it doesn't seem to have killed the Starwood program. But the Nor1 thing scares me a bit...I don't know why.
In general, there seems to be a mentality at a lot of hotels these days that they need to extract the maximum dollar amount from each guest on this stay - nickel & diming, deceptive practices, etc. Loyalty and long-term customer value are, for some reason, becoming a thing of the past. In the hotel industry I don't quite understand that - I always thought properties counted on repeat customers: people who fly to the same city 15-20 times a year and always come back to the same hotel. I guess today's economy is so strong that it just doesn't matter anymore - maybe they're better off kicking those people to the curb.
On one hand, I'm OK with a mechanism that allows people to confirm upgrades at booking-time for a price, as long as elites can still get both their "best room available" upgrade when they OLCI the day before the stay AND get a keycard to the lounge if all the upgrades are sold.
On the other hand, if they are using this outside consultant as a tool to eliminate benefits of the HH program, that's a very bad thing. The two cases that Explore wrote about would not have made me happy if they had happened at hotels where I had a Gold/Plat status.
Starwood has for several years sent me opportunities to confirm upgrades (either lounge or suite) in my booking email. I've taken advantage of those, which presumably is one less room for a Plat to upgrade to, and it doesn't seem to have killed the Starwood program. But the Nor1 thing scares me a bit...I don't know why.
In general, there seems to be a mentality at a lot of hotels these days that they need to extract the maximum dollar amount from each guest on this stay - nickel & diming, deceptive practices, etc. Loyalty and long-term customer value are, for some reason, becoming a thing of the past. In the hotel industry I don't quite understand that - I always thought properties counted on repeat customers: people who fly to the same city 15-20 times a year and always come back to the same hotel. I guess today's economy is so strong that it just doesn't matter anymore - maybe they're better off kicking those people to the curb.