clementine_bklyn

this is my first post so bare with me

My husband and I are headed to BKK for the first time for a couple of weeks in November. We plan to split up the trip BKK and some relaxing beach time

My question is how many days is enough in the city? and in what order (city then beach?)?

I keep reading and hearing conflicting reports that more than 4 days is too much.. we are from New York City of that makes any difference,
young but not partyers, more interested in temples and the like...

Any suggestions you can offer would be great!!! Thank you

-clem

HLS2002

For this New Yorker, three nights were more than ample in BKK, but it depends entirely on what you're accustomed to and what you're looking for during your travels. I basically checked out the Grand Palace grounds and then spent the balance of my time within the Oriental Hotel compound. I found the city crazy and chaotic. The heat and humidity made it all the more unpleasant. My favorite thing to do on my travels is walk, but it's next to impossible in BKK. I found it difficult to even cross the street without being hit by the crazy traffic, and I quickly understood why the concierge was shocked when I said I wanted to walk on a route that looked to be only a couple of miles. Meanwhile, I found it difficult to use taxis: a US$2 cab ride became $20 for us farangs, and I had trouble negotiating below $10. Worse, I have no idea where I'm going, so I'm in constant fear of being taken for a ride far afied and facing further scams (however unreasonable this fear; it's largely a function of me not understanding Thai). My better half and I are obvious farangs, with our blonde hair screaming out "please harass me with tuk-tuk rides, foot massages, gems, and other crap I don't want".

Chiang Mai is slow-paced if you want to trek up to the north. I'm still not sure of the attraction apart from luxuriating inside a posh hotel. Meanwhile, Thailand has beautiful beaches, and that's probably what would motivate me to return.

MegatopLover

I couldn't disagree with HLS2002 more. Bangkok could easily consume a week with no significant repetition, and might even leave you exhausted, in need of R&R on the beach.

The Grand Palace, Wat Pho (Temple of Reclining Buddha), and Golden Teak Mansion easily take a solid day. Wat Arun (Temple of Dawn) and others near the river combine with a canal tour by long-tail boat and can take another day. A day-trip up to Ayyuthya and Bang Pa-in (Rama V's summer palace) take another very full day--and they are must-sees! Chattuchak Weekend Market is the better part of a day. Other temples scattered thorughout the city, such as Wat Suthat, Wat Benjamapophit, and the Temple of the Golden Mountain probably snap up another day between 'em; you'd be pushing it to combine those with Jim Thompson's House (basically a museum). You could also day-trip down to the Hua Hin area to see Rama VI's summer palace by the sea, the floating market, and other notable temples on the way. Or you could day-trip out to the tranquil River Kwai to see the bridge, the war cemetary, the Burma railroad, and so on. All that's not counting any time for regular shopping, tailor visits, just walking around (actually quite interesting, though not exactly as easy as strolling in Singapore), spa treatments, and lounging at your hotel. Plus the food. Did I mention THE FOOD? Such as fresh-grilled river prawns bigger than your hand? Or street food that costs 240 baht (barely $7) for dinner for two, including beer? Or exotic Chinese dishes in Chinatown? Or fancier foods in the high-end hotels?

You've got to adjust to the heat and the traffic and the general chaos-- the assault on the senses as one travel writer put it. Succeed in doing that, and Bangkok is a metropolis of untold delights that will unfold before you.

The beaches of Phuket or Krabi or Koh Samui are worth visiting, for sure. Because the peak of their high season is Christmas and New Year's weeks, you're best of staying as far away from December as possible in order to get lower rates and more manageable crowds. The time you're going may coincide with the Loy Krathong festival of water-borne lanterns. I'll leave it to others who've experienced the festival (I have not) to say where it is best enjoyed-- Bangkok, Phuket, or Chiang Mai.

iancanton

the first time i went to bangkok, i hated it. too hot, too crowded, too dirty, too much traffic and utterly confusing. it was a pain to go anywhere because the tourist sights are nowhere near either the skytrain or underground metro.

as soon as we hit the beach (the nearby island of koh samet in our case, as we had only five days in total), it was total bliss.

if it's ur first time in thailand and u don't intend to go to the south (for example phuket or samui), then i recommend that u go straight to the beach. suvarnabhumi airport is already 35km toward the eastern beaches and there are airport buses to pattaya (famous for girlie bars and ladyboys, but average beach and murky-looking water), rayong (for koh samet; superb beaches, snorkelling, beach parties at weekends) and trat (for koh chang, a much larger island than koh samet; good beaches, snorkelling, waterfalls, elephant rides, at least one temple).

after u have acclimatised somewhat to thailand on the beaches (where the food is thai food for beginners, not too spicy, with some western-style or chinese-style food available at most places), go to bangkok at the end of ur holiday for a few days to do the tourist sights such as wat phra kaew, the grand palace, the shopping malls and markets. this also has the advantage that u're not carrying made-to-measure suits, wooden elephants and other souvenirs with u for most of ur holiday!

bangkok does have a lot to see, but u can leave most of it for another time, as u'll undoubtedly pass through bangkok on future trips to asia. u'll simply exhaust urself if u try doing more than about two things in a day.

ian.

MilesDependent

This sounds like an incredible exageration to me. I have travelled to Bangkok countless times and have never been ripped off like this - not even come close. There are plenty of taxis all over the city. You get in and you say "meter" and they turn the meter on. If they don't turn it on or start yabbering in Thai, you get out and wait like 20 seconds for the next taxi and try again. The only time you might have trouble is to the airport where often 400-500B is demanded as a flat fare (back in the Don Muang days, not been there since the new airport was opened). Fare should be like 200-250B tops. It is true that sometimes drivers will not go the most direct route, but in my experience, the knowledge of BKK streets is pretty poor and this is not necessarily intentional. TAxis are so incredibly cheap, even if they go out of their way by several miles it will cost you like US$1 more...

The other thing to keep in mind with Bangkok is you should always have your address written down in Thai to give to the driver - but this applies equally in any city where English is not widely spoken.

As for the comments about how hard it is to cross the road - compared to NYC that's true. But crossing the road in Bangkok is far easier than most "developing" Asian cities thanks to a plethora of overpasses, and even a fair few pedestrian traffic signals. I would say that crossing the road in Bangkok is not much worse (if any) than Rome - hair raising if you cross against the lights or away from the overpasses, but you can almost always find a legal crossing so no drama!

Bangkok is one of the most lively and enjoyable cities in the world. But there are not very many interesting "sights". My favourite activities are to wander around aimlessly, shop, and live like a King at incredibly cheap 5* hotels!

MegatopLover

^ ^ to MilesDependent. Well put. Except that I think Bangkok and environs has tons of interesting sights. Bang Pa-in and Ayyutyah could even be split up over two days if you want more time in the ruins and want a more relaxing pace; that just comes at the cost of 2 extra hours of driving time.

I wasn't wild about Koh Samet. It was fairly pretty, but I found the facilities lacking and considered it a big hassle to get to. I wouldn't want the journey from Suvarnabhumi to Koh Samet to be my first several hours in Thailand. After 24 hours on a plane, several more on a bus would be madness. If the OP and b/f are seriously considering having clothes made, I would suggest five or so days in Bangkok on the front end, a week or so at the beach, and then a couple more days in Bangkok on the back end. Some places can make clothes in 8 hours or 24 hours, but you'll get much better workmanship if you give the tailor more time. And given that you have 2 weeks in-country, I'd say you're best off flying to Phuket or Krabi. Net travel time wouldn't be much more than the bus/ferry to Koh Samet, and it would be much more comfortable.

But be sure to consider the Loy Krathong festival. Can anyone here say what the dates are and where it is best experienced?

MegatopLover

A little research on google revealed the following: Loy Krathong is on the full moon of the twelfth month of the lunar calendar, usually in November. So if you can find the full moon in November, that should give you a firm idea of when it is. Must of the festival is oriented toward the river, so Bangkok or Ayyutyah might be the best place to enjoy it, though I think in Phuket they participate by using the sea in place of the river. Locals please correct any mistakes I've made.

Wikipedia on Loy Krathong.

According to the Farmer's Almanac, the full moon in November 2007 will be on November 24th in the US. That's the Saturday of Thanksgiving weekend. Perfect for yours truly to experience the festival on a quick visit that weekend, if I can pull it off. Last year, the timing wasn't so good for me, as Loy Krathong took place on November 5-6th.

Rampo

I'm one of those who likes his Bangkok in smaller doses, but then again I'm in Thailand a couple of times a year so it's always "there" for me. Four days isn't too long to spend in Bangkok, but I tend to share iancanton's preference for saving Bangkok for the end of the visit (unless you plan on ordering tailored clothing). Whenever you stay in Bangkok, try to include a weekend so you can visit the Chatuchak Weekend Market where you should be able to take care of most of your souvenir and memorabilia needs.

The flight from the US can be very long and exhausting. Most Americans arrive late in the evening on a flight from Tokyo, and the Thai climate can be a true assault on the senses. So I would guess that you would spend at least the first night in Bangkok in any case. But unless you are the type of tourist who likes to hit the ground running, a few days at the outset at the beach is a great way to ease into the swing of things and acclimatize yourself. I am also a big fan of Chiang Mai, which is a world of difference from either Bangkok or any of the beach towns. Plus, if you are into temples, after the many temples in and around Bangkok, I think you would be well pleased with the temples of Chiang Mai, especially on Doi Suthep. Depending on how much you want to relax, adding a few days in Chiang Mai may be a bit too much for a "short" 2-week trip, but it is well worth at a visit if you are up for it. (And Chiang Mai really IS the place to be for Loy Krathong.)

flyr16

My family is heading to Bangkok next month, first to Phuket and then BKK. This wasn't a result of reading your great advice, above (relax on the beach first and then venture to BKK after you are acclimated), but because it seemed to m ake sense flight wise. We are taking TG non stop from JFK to BKK and then connecting to a flight to Phuket shortly after arrival. We figured once we are traveling for 17+ hours perhaps we might as well just "head on through" to our final destinationn. Hopefully, that makes sense, and we don't pass out at BKK airport upon arrival.

But, a few questions:
We are two adults and two kids, 11 and 12, and we'll have about 3-4 days in Bangkok. The kids are accustomed to travel. Assuming it will be incredibly hot, and the kids will be able to absorb only a couple "tourist spots" per day, what are the must sees?
Grand Palace?
Wat Pho?
The floating market?
And, what else? We are not inclined to take a day trip out of the city with the short time we have there. And we will also want to shop (hopefully in some air conditioning, perhaps).

I am also sure everyone will want some time by the pool every day. Is the Chautchak (sp?) market a must visit? We have been to some large markets in hot countries and sometimes we are overwhelmed by the heat and the selection of stuff which isn't that great. For what its worth we live in NYC so crowds and traffic, per se, don't bother us.
Thank you.

Rampo

Rules change with the JFK-BKK nonstop. You will arrive at BKK in late afternoon and will presumably have slept at least a few hours. Continuing on to Phuket should be an easy proposition.
The Chatuchak (I've also seen it spelled as Jatujak) Market is massive - thousands of vendors and scores of thousands of shoppers. It is also very hot, which can lead to lots of complaints from kids. (If they're fairly independent, I recommend handing them a couple of thousand baht, and sending them off on their own to see what bargains they can find, after establishing a time limit and meeting spot. It beats having to follow mom and dad around.) The Market can require a lot of stamina - I tend to outlast most of my Thai friends, but they usually go with specific objectives in mind and once they've acquired their items they are ready to go, whereas I like to wander around and take my time, making sure to take regular refreshment breaks. You can buy virtually anything at the Market, from lingerie to lemurs (the latter NOT recommended), furniture to ficus trees. And there are a number of places where you can ship the items back home without having to drag them back to your hotel. Generally the prices are quite good, so not as much haggling is expected or necessary, unlike any place with the name "night market" or "night bazaar" attached to it. Whether the Market would be worth your time is up to you, but I know many Thai and expats who specifically make weekend trips to BKK to stock up on household goods and clothing. (For those specifically intested in clothing, you might also want to check the markets in Bangkok's garment district, Pratanum.)

iancanton

the jfk-bkk flight is on a brand new a340-500 which has everyone singing its praises, so it'll be a relatively painless 17 hours compared with most other airlines.

there are several floating markets, all well outside bangkok and most requiring u to rise at the crack of dawn. i've been to the amphawa evening floating market, which was a memorable experience for the variety of snack food on offer and the twilight long-tail boat trip to see the fireflies, but the question of coming back in the dark as first-timers in thailand might be a worry that u'd like to avoid.

for one evening, i suggest a dinner cruise on the chaophraya river (bookable at the river side bangkok hotel near krungthon bridge). u pay a small amount (about 200 baht each, if i recall) for the cruise itself and order from the a la carte menu, which is excellent. there is live music and a dance floor inside. i haven't tried the buffet cruise, which is about 800 baht per person including food.

http://www.riversidebangkok.com/

also in the evening is the siam niramit show at the thai cultural centre. this is not as highbrow as some might think. the sit-down show itself is a visually-splendid introduction to thai history and culture, while u can stroll around outside before it actually starts (do arrive early) and see people in various styles of thai houses and costumes doing weaving, cooking and other activities.

http://www.siamniramit.com/

ian.

MegatopLover

My list of must-sees in and around Bangkok for first-timers, roughly in order:

1. Grand Palace and Wat Phra Keow (Temple of the Emerald Buddha), followed by Wat Pho (Temple of the Reclining Buddha)
2. Vinmanmek Mansion (the Golden Teak Mansion)
3. Ayyutyah and Rama V's Summer Palace at Bang Pa-in.
4. Chattuchak Weekend Market, if you're there on a weekend
5. A tuk-tuk ride anywhere, but preferably in the older parts of Bangkok.
6. A Jim Thompson store, preferably the main one on Suriwongse Rd.

#1 is the ceremonial seat of the monarchy and encompasses the most sacred place in all of Thailand sporting the most spectacular examples of classical Thai monumonetal architecture.
#2 is unlike anything else in the world, a 120+ room mansion made entirely of golden teakwood (IIRC, though I may be wrong, it's assembled in traditional fashion without nails) painted in just five royal colors and full of antiques and other memorabilia from the reign of King Chulalongkorn, Rama V, considered by some the greatest monarch in Thai history
#3 is not far from Bangkok, about an hour's drive on a modern highway. The ruins of Ayyutyah, sacked by the Burmese in the late 1700s, are practically an open archaeological site with more ancient temples in various states of destruction than you can imagine; they take you back into history like nothing else can, and they would open the eyes of young travelers to history and cultural diversity like little else. The Summer Palace, while not essential, is absolutely worth visiting to see how Thailand's great modernizer who cemented engagement with the West combined in his summer palace Thai and Western influences of the Victorian era. Yes, it's an hour out of town, but I cannot emphasize enough how much I consider Ayyutyah a must-see for first-timers. Others may disagree, but that's my opinion FWIW.
#4 is great for all of the reasons others have described. I've been to the major markets in Hong Kong, Saigon, and Beijing. None of them hold a candle to Chattuchak.
#5 is just plain definitely Bangkok. Sure, you have to haggle with the driver and even then it costs more than an air-con taxi, and you breathe in piles of exhaust on the way and your driver, and it's hot, and there's no room for packages. But it's Bangkok. Take a ride between temples or something like that, just be sure to bargain BEFORE you get in.
#6 has more top-quality silk at cheaper prices than you will find anywhere in the world, I would venture.

Not quite a must-see but highly recommended if you're bringing back gifts, Narai Phand (the Thai Industry Shop on Rajadamri Rd.) has excellent high-quality Thai souvenirs in more varieties than you can imagine at prices generally cheaper than the glitzy malls and street vendors offer.

The floating markets are interesting by entirely miss-able on a first visit. I didn't visit one until at least my third visit. And they are a serious day-trip from Bangkok. If you have limited time, you might consider it wasted whilst on your ride back to town. Without the actual market feeling, which is likely to sell wares no different than you can get in Chattuchak, you can get much the same experience, see how modern Bangkok lives, and get a feeling of the old "Venice of the East" by taking a private long-tail boat tour of the Chao Phraya and the canals that feed into it. In the off-season, it shouldn't be too expensive and can be easily arranged at riverside hotels or major piers. In two hours at most you can get much more out of a canal tour than you could by devoting a good six hours to a floating market trip; and you can combine a canal tour with a stop at the Royal Barge Museum or major temples like Wat Arun (the Temple of Dawn).

HLS2002

Re-reading my message, I agree with some others that I came off as overly negative. In particular, I should clarify the context of my taxi comment. I wasn't exaggerating, but this happened out by the Grand Palace which appears to be scam central. I just walked away from the first cab that wanted an obscene amount for the journey back to my hotel, the second one wanted almost as much and insisted his meter was broken, and the third make the same meter claim but agreed to drop his price to the point where it was not worth my while to continue arguing (despite it being at least double the meter price). I doubt presenting the card of an (relatively) expensive hotel helped.

To be fair, I did take several taxis where I was properly charged the meter rate without incident. It's just that the Grand Palace experience was my first day in Bangkok (and I won't get into the first night). After having ~20 people try to tell me the palace was closed -- no exaggeration, and despite there being signs everywhere to discourage this precise scam -- and suffering in the humid afternoon, the difficulty in getting back to the hotel was more than I could handle on my vacation.

I agree there's lots to explore in Bangkok, especially if you're in for some adventure. Rome, however, is not an apt comparison. Rome is Zürich compared to BKK. The perfect itinerary depends entirely on what you like to do.

Rampo

I am one of those who has extolled the virtues of this flight at practically every opportunity. I LOVE the convenience and comfort of the nonstop, and can honestly say that these days I would choose this flight in economy over a guaranteed business upgrade on any other flight from the US to BKK. The travel time saved and the convenience of not having to change flights in NRT, ICN, HKG, or wherever is worth its weight in upgrades.

flyr16

Thank you. Your information is spot on helpful.

Accordingly, the floating market is heading down the list of "must sees," while the Chatuchak market is heading up. Maybe if we go early we can beat heat stroke. Likewise the idea of a private Long Tail boat sounds great. We will be at the Shangri-La so, I imagine that should be easy. Do you just say "go!" or you really need to direct them somewhere?

Also, what is your recommendation for the best night market? And, do you generally eat the street food, or simply pass it by? We really do love food but, we also recognize the upside may not be worth the hours out of commission.
Thanks