supermasterphil

I don't really see a huge popularity to fly to Brasil, meaning I don't see a higher demand than weeks ago. But suddenly the number of flights to Sao Paulo increased by a lot, so why shouldn't prices drop?

andre1970

I guess, because prices do not just fall automatically and ...on own initiative: Airlines manipulate them. And chances are that they're not very eager to push them downwards .

My Econ 101 (gave me hell to pass, y'all know... ) tells me that what is more likely to contribute to a decline in prices is competition, not just an increase in supply (if any). Alas, if I'm reading the news correctly, this is not about intensified competition between LH and TAM, but pretty much about the opposite, right? Much worse, when there is no increase in supply to boot. Whatever was the number of seats before, it should remain the same, by and large: LH seats+TAM seats. What changes however, is the degree of coordination between formerly independent decision centers.

MariaSF

It's not that Germans want to go to Brazil or vice-versa.
After Varig went belly up, there are 7,000 less seats in international flights from and to Brazil every day. So all other companies could afford to increase prices, because the demand for them became much higher.

Also, since the USA started requiring a Visa for passengers only connecting in the country, Brazilian and SA folks in general avoid the USA route when going to Asia. It's much less trouble to connect anywhere in Europe instead, where they don't need a visa.
The Japanese community in São Paulo (GRU) is huge, by the way.

hardiwv

It's not that Germans want to go to Brazil or vice-versa.
After Varig went belly up, there are 7,000 less seats in international flights from and to Brazil every day. So all other companies could afford to increase prices, because the demand for them became much higher.

Total seat capacity/offered now is higher than at the pre-VARIG times. Since RG went down, LH introduced MUC-GRU, routed the FRA-EZE flight via GRU and increased frequencies of LX now 6 x week. RG itself is operating FRA twice daily, while Condor operates SSA in Northeast Brazil.

Demand for Brazil flights has increased strongly, especially high-yield traffic. Ahead bookings are very healthy.


Also, since the USA started requiring a Visa for passengers only connecting in the country, Brazilian and SA folks in general avoid the USA route when going to Asia. It's much less trouble to connect anywhere in Europe instead, where they don't need a visa.
The Japanese community in São Paulo (GRU) is huge, by the way.

Indeed, but to avoid the US transit, many pax are flying via Canada Air Canada or South Africa with SA. In addition, Air China started to operate PEK-GRU (showing strong loads), while JAL also increased frequencies NRT-GRU. Emirates will start DXB-GRU in October, and will also take care of many pax connecting to Asia.

Increased capacity in GRU has been very high therefore more seats offered now than during RG times. TAM has also been growing amazingly, operating now 3 daily to CDG,+ daily to LHR and MXP - FRA will be next while aircraft dont stop arriving...

As for Europe Brazil, *A partner TAP never-ending expansion is bringing the airline 12 weekly to GIG, 11 weekly to GIG, and LIS-BSB service will start in June opening a new gateway to the already established daily SSA, NAT, FOR, REC services. AF will introduce its second daily CDG-GIG in October, while its twice daily CDG-GRU are consolidaded.

Rgs,

sentom

have you ever heard of the quote button?! this is really hard to read...

madhatter

Domestic codeshares on TAM, anyone?

supermasterphil

Do you really think this is an appropriate post?

madhatter

Of course I do! Why would you think I'd post if I thought otherwise?

As a plus, it is ON topic. Why would LH cooperate in codeshhares with airlines that operate from highly dangerous airports? You know, this is the problem with all thhose airlines down there and TAM just happens to be the largest.

DownUnderFlyer

Let's say the style is a bit questionable. At least I would have worded it a differently after such an event.
But you can learn from this tradgedy that any airline needs to carfully chose their partners. And in some cases, it is not only about the partner airline, it can be about the state of the civial aviation system of an entire nation.

supermasterphil

From what I read, it is very obvious that the runway was in the worst shape and an incident like that happened just recently with a smaller plane. So the problem was more about the airport than about the a/c, the airline or their pilots (from what we know by now)

On the other hand, these pilots or the airline could have known how bad it is and they could have refused to land under conditions like that (aquaplaning due to heavy rain) if they would have been more responsible. And if comes to that point, yes, airlines should be more careful about the partners they choose.

I don't want to say that something like that couldn't happen to other airlines

Airsicknessbag

>>>Domestic codeshares on TAM, anyone?

>>>any airline needs to carfully chose their partners.

Can you at least wait until the cause is known until you conclude whether TAM are a suitable LH partner or not?

I on't remember anyone voicing similar concerns when Luxair's THF-LUX crashed five years ago, and that flight even bore an LH flight number...

cl.lurker

Bob'sYourUncle

Absolutely. Because LH has never had an accident. The world's very first 747 crash was somebody completely different. And because LH's other partners have never ever crashed either and operate from perfectly safe European airports. SK 686 in LIN was a perfect example of this....

imverge

I don't agree with your term "those airlines"

Actually TAM has an excellent reputation in Brazil and throughout South America. TAM was considered superior to Varig in customer service and cabin comfort. They also had a more modern fleet than Varig.

I would love to see TAM enter Star Alliance and code share with LH as South America is now the week link in the Star network.

Bob'sYourUncle

Oh, and I almost forgot, an LH plane has never suffered aquaplaning when landing on a wet runway. And certainly not in WAW.