SST

First, the good: VA is now selling tickets. Snagged an SFO-LAX r/t, with one leg in coach, the other in first, for the same price AA/UA are selling coach. A new program to join, a new set of rewards possibilities, perhaps a new airline to love. I have high hopes both for civilized service from SFO and more reasonable prices.... So far so good.

The new EleVAte program seems to allow a free r/t on any seat, any flight, after 4 r/t's or 4900 points. What constitutes a "point" isn't defined anywhere obvious. And whether the LAX r/ts count toward the 4 r/ts isn't stated equivocally, either. Here's hoping they clarify this, and do it soon and in our favor.

Now the minor bad news: In selecting seats, it appears that exit rows and bulkhead seats cost $15 extra.

One worrisome note: this appeared on the website on my second trip there, AFTER I booked my ticket--

"Virgin America does not currently have authority from the Department of Transportation to operate the services for which your ticket is being issued. You may, upon request, cancel your ticket and obtain a full refund at any time before we start operations. If we have not started operations by the date of your ticketed travel, we will make reasonable efforts to arrange substitute air transportation for you, at a cost of up to 200% of your Virgin America ticket. If we cannot arrange substitute transportation for you, we will refund to you 200% of the price paid for your Virgin America ticket."

OTOH, before the Anti-Virgin folks start bashing them, I'd almost welcome a delay in their operations, so I could collect a few freebies ahead of time..... spoken like a true longtime FT member...

Finally, it took a couple times thru the browser before I could actually complete the sale; there was an "Internal Error" . There is also a problem with their "Talk To Us" link; when I went to attempt this, it asked for an ID and password. PUtting in my EleVAte code was rejected. Pretty neat trick to avoid dealing with the customer service issue..........

Since it's still only 6 hours into their operation, I guess I can't be too critical, but "HEY FRED---- LET'S GET IT RIGHT, HUH?" (Rant, and report, over)

mia

Points are based on spend, not distance or segments. You'll earn 5 points for every $1 you spend for travel on Virgin America

I read this: redeem a free trip for as few as 4,900 points. Earn a free flight after as few as 4 roundtrips, to mean that four roundtrips may generate the required 4,900 points, not that 4 roundtrips automatically qualifies for an award. However, it would look as if one transcontinental trip might generate 4,900 points because that is only $980 spend. Presumably this is for an economy class award.

http://virginamerica.com/va/whatIsel...wwhatIseleVAte

geckoflyer

The website seems to be lacking critical details too. Like what kind of products/services are offered in first. Food? Great - in-seat massage...but I'd like more details.

If anyone finds this info could you please post a link?

mikeef

Trying to hit VA site now, but it's reallllyyyy slow.

Mike

Edited to add: Just took a look at pricing on JFKSFO; picked a random weekend and got $139 OW in Y, $389 OW in F.

Mike

THE soni

I don't think it is totally what you're looking for, but if you got to The VA Difference, here:

http://www.virginamerica.com/va/vaDifference.do

you can see some entertainment, seat, food options, and what not...

edit: not sure why the link isn't working, but just click the VA Difference at the top of the page.

geckoflyer

Thanks THE soni! I'm going to check it out now but the site keeps timing out. Someone didn't do proper load testing

brucebowe

I just looked at the website. Looks OK, but acts like it's being served from a laptop somewhere. Did manage to get a quote SFO-LAX-SFO for a date next month for $44 each way coach. That's as far as I went. Didn't see how to get to F. Interesting, as their program might be good for a road warrior who goes up and down the coast a lot. Definitely bears watching.
I would think it's pretty basic to get the site working before going live with it. It's not that hard to do.

TrueBlueFlyer

so basically $980 bux buys you a free roundtrip?

wow

--Russ

mia

Parallel discussion here...

http://flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=715882

salut0

Lucky you! As far as I know (not having experienced this myself, but just read about it...) Virgin Atlantic charges GBP 50 (=$100 at current exchange rates) for reserving an exit row seat.

pinniped

Looks very half-baked. I think I joined Elevate, but the user experience was so bad I don't really know for sure. I got a server error, but I think it happened after my profile was established.

Oh...there...I was able to login. Hmmm. Not very impressive. These guys still appear to be very much in "alpha" mode. Lots of work to do between now and August 8th.

rb.sr

The reason airlines have avoided tying FF points/awards to dollars spent is because the current disconnect is the principal argument on why awards are not taxable income to the user. The theory may be put to the test with this program.

pinniped

Seems like that shouldn't be a huge problem...when I redeem a coupon at the grocery store, it's not taxable income. And within the travel industry, the hotels are already tying their rewards programs closely to dollars spent (granted, with bonus promotions on the earning side and hotel categories on the redemption side that keep it *slightly* detached from a straight percent-off discount). Even if my client is paying for the hotel room and I'm receiving the points, it's not a legal/tax issue.

To me, the downside to the simple rebate approach is that the program isn't as exciting. The marketing sizzle isn't there. I simply think "Gee, shouldn't my flights simply be 20% (or whatever) cheaper?" To me, the lure to fly Virgin America is the eventual ability to fly Upper Deck to Europe. If they tie too closely to revenue on the redemption side (which they'll have to if they are serious about no capacity controls), that award will be out of reach.

Efrem

Not so, at least among "legacy" U.S. carriers. The real reason is that purchase patterns of "bottom feeders" are far more susceptible to this sort of influence than those of pax who spend more. Tying points/miles to spending would reward people who statistically* don't much care, while missing an opportunity to score big with folks who do. Discount economy tickets may not be as profitable as full Y or paid F, but they're a heck of a lot more profitable than empty seats.

VA may think their market is non-traditional in this regard, they may be influenced by European FF program patterns (which originated in a market where airline choice is influenced by different factors, so motivating pax who have already chosen an airline to pay more is a major goal), they may figure it's worth a shot, or they may be making a mistake. Time will tell.

There are many reward programs outside the airline business whose rewards are tied to spending. (I'm personally in those of Staples and REI, to name just two.) Taxability of those rewards has never been an issue. The tax issue with airline FF awards has to do with separating out how much of the fare is for transportation versus credits toward an award and issues along those lines, not with how credit toward awards is earned or calculated.

___________________________
*FTers are not typical. Repeat: FTers are not typical.

Stefan Daystrom

Have they announced that this will definitely happen?

If not, I wouldn't count on it.

Virgin Express in Europe never tied its FF program to Virgin Atlantic's. (It now longer exists, since it merged with SN Brussels and they've now combined into Brussels Airlines and have just one FF program. Still nothing to do with Virigin Atlantic of course.)

The much easier way to eventually fly Upper Deck on Virgin to Europe is through partner activity with some partners who give way more to Virgin than to most any US airlne. Like Avis giving you a flat 1000 Virgin (Atlantic) miles per rental, when for US-based airlines it (and other rental companies) only give a platry 50 miles a day. There are equivalents in some hotel programs too.