Mary2e

It's bad enough we have to use miles and pay for it, but what does not make any sense is that it is non-refundable. I can see paying a fee, but it's an awful lot of money to lose if you have to cancel the trip.

Is the value usable? I mean if you cancel an ticket, you can apply the value toward a new ticket. Can the "service fee" be used in the same way?

TWA Fan 1

I actually think this rule makes sense, since the service fee is meant to compensate CO for its expense of providing you the upgrade (the labor, infrastructure, ticketing, etc).

When you cancel a revenue ticket, in most cases there is a change fee, which is also justified by the need to compesnate CO for the cost of rebooking you.

Is CO making a profit on these service and change fees? Of course, but I guess that's capitalism.

CO 1E

So, if you change a BF upgraded ticket to another date that already has upgrade space available, would you be charged the upgrade fee again?

Mary2e

I can understand a fee, but up to $400 for the "service" they have provided is excessive.

I doubt it takes more than a few minutes to do that upgrade reservation.

TWA Fan 1

Agreed.

I suppose you could chalk it up to the excess cost of providing you the fancy-schamcy BF service. If so, of course, then you have to wonder what good your miles are doing you?

If you cancel then my explanation does not work at all, of course, since they keep your 400 bucks and you don't get the fancy-schmancy service. Maybe the high cost of the fee is calculated to keep you from canceling so that their BF loads are more predictable?

J.Edward

This is something I'm torn on here.

On UA/NW at least you can only upgrade (with miles) from Y/B classes (that's Y/H for us CO folks). Granted there are other options for securing an upgrade on both those carriers but to avoid the quarterly CO needs SWU's thread a virtue of the copay is that it is only charged when the upgrade clears and you can upgrade from any fare (again depending on the copay).

That said, I do not like the copay and ironically enough book UA for my international travel but it is nice that CO has simplified the ability for one to upgrade with miles from any fare vs the other carriers where the you'll have to be re-ticketed in a higher fare class for the upgrade (again this is assuming you're using miles).

If CO wan't to play the non-refundable card...fine. Play it. But at the same time if plans change I think at least a voucher should be issued to the customer for the amount of the copay to use against future co-pays or to purchase new tickets.

CO 1E

Bump.

kirfan

I was recently told that I would forfeit the service charge (btw - it can be a max of $450) if I changed the flight after the upgrade had been processed. So to answer your question, if you changed the flight from the already upgraded BF, you would lose the service charge you paid for that upgrade. You would have to pay a new service charge to get a BF upgrade on your rescheduled flight. Of course, you would get your miles back from the earlier change (at a charge if you are not a plat).

I agree with the OP that the $450 charge is a rip. I upgraded on a flight to India recently and had to cough up 40,000 miles and $350 on a B fare to upgrade one way. I decided not to do it on the return leg.

mikew99

These service charges (whether for upgrading or for cancelling) have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with compensating CO for the cost of rebooking.

The service charge to upgrade varies depending on the fare class purchased. In general, the cheaper the fare class, the higher the service charge. It certainly doesn't cost CO more to process an upgrade from a U fare to a K fare, but CO will happily charge you $400 to upgrade a U fare and only $200 to upgrade a K fare (and nothing at all to upgrade a full Y fare).

Airlines like UA have no service fees for upgrading, because some fares are not upgradable at all. To have even a hope of upgrading, you need to pay the "service charge" in the form of a higher fare at time of ticketing.

The good thing about the UA system is that if your plans change, you get the amount back as a credit or refund (minus change fees, if any). The bad thing is that if your upgrade doesn't clear, then you've paid extra for nothing.

The good thing about CO's system is that you pay the service fee only if the upgrade clears. But if your plans change, then again, you've paid extra for nothing.

TWA Fan 1

I agree with you, perhaps you did not read my post closely enough.

I wrote that that the CO upgrade fee pays for the cost of providing the upgrade while a change fee (obviously something different) compensates CO or any airline for the administrative cost of rebooking a passenger in a fare category that requires this fee.

My point is that these are both fees for services provided and that is why they are not refundable.

Regarding your point that it does not cost CO more administratively to upgrade a passenger from a cheaper fare but that they charge more for it, that is obviously right and this portion of the fee is clearly intended to provide CO more revenue. The fact that it is not refundable cannot be chalked up to administrative costs but instead perhaps CO's desire to create a disincentive for passengers to upgrade from the least expensive fare categories. In this case, you could say that the lack of refundability is akin to non-refundable discount fares.

As to the merits of the CO system vs. other airlines I agree with you and others there are pros and cons to each system.

ContinentalFan

I look at it his way: if people are prepared to pay it, it's not excessive. At least, CO is generating revenue from the fee. I also think that CO wants to make sure that there isn't too much of a price difference between a discounted coach fare and an H fare. I have found it a lot more convenient to purchase an H fare rather than buy coach and pay the fee.

radonc1

The good thing about the UA system is that if your plans change, you get the amount back as a credit or refund (minus change fees, if any). The bad thing is that if your upgrade doesn't clear, then you've paid extra for nothing

I think the CO system works fine. Last year I flew to MUC for work and the trip was set up by a TA, who booked me on NW. I was in Q class. I wanted to upgrade using my onepass miles. However, at the time I wanted to upgrade, NW had no WBC inventory released into the bucket where I could do an upgrade. I had to wait until 3 days before my flight for inventory to open. There was an incredicle amount of mishigas I then had to go through to buy the upgraded fare on NW and then to get all the parties (CO and NW) on the same page to get the upgrade.

I had to do the same thing again for the return, but this time I was in Germany! In order to avoid hundreds of dollars in phone charges, I had to have my wife in the States make all the arrangements. It really was a mess!
I would much prefer to buy my discounted ticket, put in my bid for an upgrade and then wait and see if it comes through. If it does, great. I pay the fee (which is the same as buying up to the allowable fare on NW, anyway) spend the miles and I am done. I don't have to go through severe contortions with various agents to accomplish my goal. YMMV

UA Insider

Hi CO 1E, the short answer is won't be charged again if the change is made within the same reservation. Worth noting, the copay is only charged once he BusinessFirst upgrade is confirmed. The only time you'll have to pay additional copay fees is if your copay was charged for your original flight (because the BusinessFirst upgrade was confirmed), and you're changing to an itinerary that involves a higher fee. In these cases, you'll be subject to the difference in copay once the upgrade on the new BusinessFirst flight is confirmed. Hope this helps.

CO 1E

Thanks, Scott!

So, in other words, if I have an U fare that I upgraded with miles and that I later change to an itinerary (within the same confirmation number) where the international segment drops to an X fare, I would be charged $50, i.e., the difference between the $400 U fare co-pay and the $450 X fare co-pay?

Also, what if one upgrades a fare after having confirmed a mileage upgrade? For example, what if one changes an X fare to an H fare after having confirmed the upgrade from the X fare - is the co-pay still non-refundable?

Thanks!

UA Insider

Great example. That's correct.

Yes, once the copay has been charged (because your original BusinessFirst upgrade was confirmed), it's non-refundable - even if you buy up to a higher fare at a later date. If the copay for your original itinerary hadn't been charged (because we hadn't yet confrmed the BusinessFirst upgrade), then you'll simply be responsible for the new copay (if applicable) if/when the BusinessFirst upgrade is confirmed.