ifette

I have seen a few people talk about how they didn't get EUA'd, and when trying to OLCI they were told "FC Full, put on waiting list", canceled out, and successfully got upgraded during OLCI when re-trying later. I didn't really believe this was possible, except that it happened to me coming back from thanksgiving DTW-SFO.

I have a few questions on this, that I am hoping NW Scoop or someone else can answer.

1. You're put on the waiting list the first time EUA fails to upgrade you, correct? So canceling OLCI and trying again later won't net you a lower spot on the waiting list, will it?

2. What happens when there is a waiting list, and there is also R availability? I.e. someone completed OLCI the night before and printed out their Y BP, the following day R seats are released, and now I am doing OLCI. Who gets the seat? Me, during OLCI, or the guy who was on top of the waiting list in a BF?

3. Is there ever a scenario under which I check in via OLCI, am put on the waiting list, and then lose out in a battlefield upgrade, when if I had waited until the following day I would have been upgraded during OLCI?

It just seems weird to me that someone might be on the waiting list, hoping for a BF upgrade, while some else gets upgraded during OLCI. The only way that this makes sense to me is if the people who get upgraded during OLCI were already on the waiting list, in the top N spots, where there were >N seats available. Is that roughly how it works, or am I missing out on something more complicated? I would really appreciate it if you could shed some light on the workings of OLCI vs BF upgrades, and how the waiting list ties in.

LucWise

This is a trick I used many times with success as a Silver in the past... attempt OLCI and if I don't get the upgrade, I cancel it. I then check ExpertFlyer routinely (if I have time) on the day of the flight, checking for R seats to open. My guess is that when someone uses the FlyNow option and they are upgraded, a seat in R opens up. Then I go in and snag the upgrade using OLCI. I can't be sure, but I think I have scored upgrades ahead of other silvers and golds using this method.

avidflyer

This is pretty well documeted here and I have been successfull at it several times. Once you are on the Waitlist you are there...even if you cancel olci. Then, if an R seat opens (someone cancels/changes flights) and you olci you will get it.

ifette

Do you get it because you are at the top (or sufficiently near the top of the waitlist), or do you get it merely because you are trying OLCI at the right time? I.e. if there are 2 F seats available, and you were already on the waitlist as #3, but you then tried OLCI, would you get the seat, or would it just keep you on the waitlist as #3?

avidflyer

My belief (others please check me here) is that there are a certain number of FC seats that are held for BF (last minute sale, whatever) and those are the seats you are waitlisted for. If someone cancels and drives an additional R seat (beyond the seats held) then it is first-come, first-served. I think the bottom line is it is too complex to code anything other than that. On the OLCI and cancel, it is important that you get in as early as possible (-23:59) to get on the top of the list and then cancel out (if you want to try) when the screen says "you have been added to the WL". You lose nothing by trying this as I know for a fact that once you are on the WL you can cancel OLCI and not lose your place. That is also (I believe) governed by status so first plat on the list gets first BF UG.

ifette

I think you're wrong, unfortunately. I always OLCI at -23:59, so I am reasonably confident that I am the first to have OLCI'd. And yet, I often miss the BF upgrade. (This is true of SJC-MSP, where I am pretty sure that there are no "connecting" passengers who were able to check in >24h than the SJC-MSP segment, because it's basically impossible to connect to SJC-MSP.) The only answer to why I would lose out on a BF would be that a) someone was already on the waitlist (due to a failure of EUA to upgrade them?), or b) the primary factor is not time, but fare class?. Personally, I think it's more likely that they were already on the waiting list because of EUA, and so I wonder if getting in at -23:59 makes any difference at all, since I would already have a waiting list spot based on EUA failing to upgrade me?

Also, it really wouldn't be that hard to code - if there is a non-empty waiting list, just don't offer upgrades during OLCI, and let the BF sort it out.

Stated much more simply, the question I really want answered (by NW Scoop hopefully) is whether it is possible to get upgraded via repeat OLCI when I would have lost out had I waited for the BF.

avidflyer

Well I have done it (and many other FT'es as well) succesfully many times. If you don't believe me,well why ask here on FT? There is a certain time in the early am when it is best done . Scoop actually did answer that question a while back. Other than Y and B fare class does not come into play. Date of ticket issue and time at OLCI are (in Scoops words) "the most likely factors".

SchmutzigMSP

http://www.nwa.com/worldperks/elite/upgradetips.shtml

Quite a lot of information can be read explicitly or inferred from this page. Having NW or NW scoop say much more might border on the lines of giving out corporate secrets.

ifette

I'm not questioning the fact that it's possible to get upgraded during OLCI after having been put on waitlist by OLCI previously. In my OP, I stated that it happened to me on my trip back from thanksgiving. What I'm trying to figure out is the mechanics behind it. I.e. was I upgraded during the 5th OLCI because I was high on the waitlist, or because an R seat had opened up? Unfortunately, none of us really have a way to know that, because we have no idea of our position on the waitlist at the point where we got upgraded. We can speculate that we were high on the waitlist due to OLCI, but Scoop has also said that EUA will add you to the waitlist, so really we have no idea.

MNAudiS4

Here is a prime example.....

P3F3 R0 SFO-MSP Check with the agent at check-in i am number 3 on the list as a Plat. My Co-worker a Silver not sure how far down the list but was running late to the airport. Just happens that the HNL-SFO-MSP flight got delayed and most everyone on that flight that had FC got bumped out at 5:40 AM for the 6:30 AM flight from SFO-MSP. So i was bored and checking expertflyer at the gate and saw R go from 0 to 8. My silver coworker was just going to checkin and he was able to grab one of the FC seats at check-in at the airport. I later saw a couple golds go up to the gate and than FC was full with Plats and higher waiting list golds but my silver coworker got the seat.

Another example R1 at the 24hr mark MSP-SFO i checked in my Gold worker on a K fare and got the FC upgrade at the 24 hr mark. Another co-worker gold on a M fare did not get an upgrade at all. So unless my co-worker was 1 on the list which i highly doubt it he grabbed the only R seat at checkin.

It's very interesting indeed and pays to know when there is and isn't R availability.

avidflyer

Great Examples. I believe it is nothing more than first-come first served when additional R seats come available or are released. For the "hold back" seats they keep until the very end, that is when I think other factors come into play along with the waitlist. The key is to jump when there is an R seat. Nothing about the process is completely reliable but some knowledge around the drivers (when R seats are released) gives you the best shot.

ifette

*sigh*, your example makes me believe that my (fear) is correct - it is possible to get upgraded via OLCI when you would have lost out via BF. To me, this seems a bit unfair that a plat who checks in 24h prior gets beat out by a silver who checks in 4h prior, but now that I am aware that it's a real issue, I guess I will just have to check R availability and/or OLCI repeatedly with greater frequency.

avidflyer

It depends on how you look at it. At the time you OLCI'd there were X seats up for BF and you were placed on the list for those seats. If additional seats release after you OLCI you have really not lost your place as it was at the time you checked in. The seat that went to the OLCI passenger who got lucky (or was as savy as MNAudiS4 ) was an addtional seat. I know what you are saying but I think that you can still be very successful on UG's just letting the system work. I rarely have time to do all of the things my time here on FT have taught me to do to have the best chance at an UG but I have a very good record of getting into FC (missed 2/114 segs this year) so for the most part it does work well.

MNAudiS4

Now we just need to figure out when they are releasing them under the 24 hr mark!

1. If you have a FC seat and you need to change a flight. Do a quick check to see if an R seat opens up.

2. Any other ideas?

avidflyer

Hey, it just occured to me that myself, ifette, and MNaudiS4 are actually the guys fighting for the UG every week out of SFO/SJC! On second thought, the best way to get an upgrade out of the Bay Area is to buy your ticket at the last minute and say "no" when asked if you want a complimentary upgrade at check-in and make fun of the GA...yea, thats it, that what you shoud do..