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Give up and go private?

Give up and go private?

Old Sep 27, 2008, 3:47 pm
  #1  
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Give up and go private?

Has your company considered this option for you? Or if you're your own company (as I am), have you considered it?

I've looked at the numbers, and if it were enough people going to the same place (filling whichever size plane), it would be in line with current costs, without the problems we now face traveling. And the privacy isn't something that is not to be considered.

But if it's just one person, SkyJet/NetJets is quite expensive - even on small jets (I don't mind the stops to refuel as they said it would cost 12 min. vs getting a midsize or large jet where the actual fees would be exponentially higher).

So, have you considered it? (In a serious matter) I think private flying isn't about the comfort - in the general sense. If you don't know what I mean, try a bathroom in a LearJet but about the ability to fly when you need to, in privacy, and without hassles.
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Old Sep 27, 2008, 3:56 pm
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I've gone private once, on a flight with our CEO. I think if your time is seriously valuable, it's worth every penny, as you spend so much more time being productive rather than sitting in airports. Having the chance to depart whenever you please helps too, and not having the delays that come with typical commercial travel.
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Old Sep 27, 2008, 3:56 pm
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The company I used to work for (Fortune 50 financial) had around half a dozen private jets solely for company use, from Gulfstream V to smaller Bombardier Challenger equipment.

If enough you were travelling to the same place then you could apply for use of one of the private jets. Only the CEO could approve travel on the G-V (as he used it for all his personal and business travels by orders of the board IIRC) but on some of the smaller craft getting authorization was quite straightforward. My first, and only business trip with the company was aboard the private jet fleet.
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Old Sep 27, 2008, 4:00 pm
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What were your thoughts on it? Would you do it if you could? Do you think it's worth it? I really don't think there's much of a difference in price; esp. with today's prices and today's problems. Time is valuable, though it would be nice if I were traveling with 3-4 other people as costs would be absorbed more easily.

I've been on a few (for personal use, though personal trips tend to turn into business trips) and can't find any fault.
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Old Sep 27, 2008, 4:16 pm
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Depends entirely on the route.

If it's one or two people going from NYC to SF, I think it's incredibly difficult to justify flying private. The costs are high, you're not going to save much time (especially if you're using an aircraft with insufficient range that has to make fuel stops), and there's plenty of commercial service.

On the other hand, flying a dozen people from NYC to SF is another story, as the cost difference vs. commercial narrows significantly.

Based on my experience, the best uses for NetJets or other offerings is getting to places that are not well-served by commercial airlines or for moving a decent-sized group of people who all need to be in the same place at the same time. I have colleagues who routinely have to visit companies in the middle of nowhere, and NetJets lets them fly to a municipal airport that can save hours of driving.

But using NetJets to send one or two people to a place like Boston or Chicago that has multiple flights every hour is just ridiculous.

And you're right about the comfort -- it's not like you're going to be relaxing in a king-sized bed at 35,000 feet with servants to dip your strawberries in chocolate. I remember being in a Falcon 900EX flying HPN-OAK earlier this year and wishing I had been able to fly UA JFK-SFO in F instead so I could at least lay down.
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Old Sep 27, 2008, 4:23 pm
  #6  
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Agree with your post on many counts, though I don't agree that the 12min they charge to refuel (this is SkyJet, didn't look into NetJets as heavily) is a big deal. If you're only one or two people; or you're picking up a client, why would I rent a Challenger when I can get a LearJet 30 and pay for the small jet pricing rather than a large jet price?

And yes, being able to fly into a small aeroport and not deal with security is nice. Can save A LOT of time - just being five minutes from where you need to be, rather than 1h from the aeroport.

Waste of money to not fly JFK-BOS on a regional jet of some major airline.

My ultimate goal is to eventually buy a GIII or Challenger, have NetJets maintain it, make money when I don't use it, and use it when I do so I can cover costs. Looks like it can come pretty close.

I'm looking forward to the new LearJet that is coming out. The most important thing to me in a jet is a place to work (be it a table or a tray table), and 180 degree seats. A couch that pulls out is great, but not necessary (maybe the day I am a billionaire, heh).
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Old Sep 27, 2008, 4:35 pm
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If I could afford it, I would do it-- no question.
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Old Sep 27, 2008, 5:36 pm
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Having worked in a company with multiple company jets, and flown in those jets, just the ability to avoid the TSA is worth it, much less the other hassles. As D'Artagnan points out, you can be incredibly productive in the much shorter time you are actually traveling.

On the other hand, the strong correlation between companies that own jets and companies that do not really serve their stockholder's best interests is very discouraging. Somewhere there is a Treasury study on this relationship that convinced me to sell the shares of any company that enters into a lease or ownership relationship for a company plane.
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Old Sep 27, 2008, 6:04 pm
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My company, a large multinational insurer, has a regular charter flight between the US HQ and a major US branch one week a month- from A to B Monday and back to B on Friday. This is a route that can't be done on commercial flights without a layover and I can tell you from personal experience that if you leave from Airport A on Friday at 5 PM on a commercial flight you WILL miss your connection and either get home at 1 AM or else spend the night in the hub city. (A is a small airport in a suburb on the Bos-Wash corridor.)

Plenty of people use this flight and I imagine we gain a lot of productivity. I just scheduled a flight home from City A leaving at noon on Friday because I will not put up with the possibility of a missed connection again. If I were on the charter back to City B I'd happily leave at 5 PM. My UK-based boss, who makes enough money that his company car is a Jaguar, flew commercial in one direction and charter in the other. He could not believe the difference. I'm sure we got more work out of him in the office than we did while he was hanging around in ORD.

I would not automatically assume that a company that uses charters is wasteful. What about the time wasted when all its highly-paid executibes are waiting with TSA lines, getting on and off planes, getting to the airport 2 hours early, and all the other time-wasting trappings of commercial travel? Even with Blackberries, cell phones and airport lounges, being in transit is not the same as being in the office.

Last edited by Athena53; Sep 27, 2008 at 6:11 pm
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Old Sep 27, 2008, 6:28 pm
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Originally Posted by Athena53
What about the time wasted when all its highly-paid executibes are waiting with TSA lines, getting on and off planes, getting to the airport 2 hours early, and all the other time-wasting trappings of commercial travel?
I cannot remember the last time I arrived two hours early to an airport.

The only thing I can imagine that would require such an early arrival is checking bags onto an international flight. Even then, United (as an example) only requires that bags be checked 45 minutes in advance. Since anybody who has the option to fly private is almost certainly flying in F, there shouldn't be any waiting in lines (and escorts to the head of security, if necessary).

One of my former employers also ran a shuttle from headquarters to a remote facility. Although there were about a dozen daily non-stops on UA/AA, the shuttle saved a considerable amount of time because it was able to use municipal airports that were much closer to both ends, which highlights the point I made earlier -- the ability to use "secondary" airports that cut down on ground travel time.
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Old Sep 27, 2008, 6:28 pm
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Originally Posted by abcxyz
What were your thoughts on it? Would you do it if you could? Do you think it's worth it? I really don't think there's much of a difference in price; esp. with today's prices and today's problems. Time is valuable, though it would be nice if I were traveling with 3-4 other people as costs would be absorbed more easily.

I've been on a few (for personal use, though personal trips tend to turn into business trips) and can't find any fault.
I'm not sure if your questions were directed at me or not but I'll answer them anyway.

To be quite honest I don't find travel, especially from my home airport (RIC) to be that stressful. My airport doesn't have priority lines but security is usually less than 5mins, and more often than not I'm flying premium cabin (and I've got elite status) so I don't loathe flying as much as your once a year flyer.

Having said that the jet was very convenient. I just parked up at a small hangar on one side of the airfield, was met by a guy with a clipboard who ticked my name off a sheet of paper and waited in a room for my colleagues to turn up, then we just walked out to the aircraft. At the other end we were met by a small motorcoach type thing and driven to the office.

I don't tend to travel to out of the way places on personal time which is one of the main benefits of a jet, and frankly at my age don't earn enough money to consider it a reasonable alternative to flying commercially! I'd rather fly F and save the cash, and I don't always fly F anyways! There's no way I could justify it internationally, and frankly I wouldn't anyways, I quite like BA F/J!

The only person I know who is in the market for a private jet is splitting a Gulfstream V with two other business partners. He lives in the Channel Islands and splits his time between Florida, the Middle East, Mauritius, South Africa and Continental Europe. For him to get anywhere requires a connection, usually through London, and sometimes with a change of airports which gets tiresome by all accounts. He is wealthy enough to fly his wife and four kids in F everywhere on a regular basis so for him I guess it isn't much of a real step up.
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Old Sep 27, 2008, 6:45 pm
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Originally Posted by blort
I cannot remember the last time I arrived two hours early to an airport.

The only thing I can imagine that would require such an early arrival is checking bags onto an international flight. Even then, United (as an example) only requires that bags be checked 45 minutes in advance. Since anybody who has the option to fly private is almost certainly flying in F, there shouldn't be any waiting in lines (and escorts to the head of security, if necessary).
If I'm flying out of an East Coast airport and don't know what the combination of traffic/parking shuttle wait time/baggage chack/TSA is going to be, I allow a ton of time and frequently do end up there 2 hours early. It would be silly at MCI, my home airport, but I once flew out of HPN and needed those 2 hours. And in our company if you need to be at HQ and your schedule coincides with the week the charter flies, you're on it- so it's not just execs who'd be in F. (And most execs are required to fly Coach if net air time is 5 hours or less.)
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Old Sep 27, 2008, 7:03 pm
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Once we almost missed the flight (I think this was SMF) because of a combination of factors, mostly long lines at any conceivable waiting spot.... we actually RAN to the concourse with car seats and 3 kids in tow and got there as they were boarding the last section. I suppose that might be "not even close to missing the flight" by some people, but that was way closer than I would ever feel comfortable about it happening.

I haven't had an incident like that since, so I guess it was just the odds game....
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Old Sep 27, 2008, 7:07 pm
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I have never had a job where I was paid more than what they would pay to fly someone on a private jet, so I can't really say either way.
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Old Sep 27, 2008, 7:14 pm
  #15  
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I worked for a company that had a jet and a helicopter or two. All of the flights in Europe (they were based in the UK) were pretty much on the company jet. The IT guys loved it, if they had to pick up a client in Madrid, they (sometimes me if I was over there for something) would jump on for the flight to Madrid, do some stuff in the office there for the day or overnight, and fly back when they brought the client back later in the day or the next day.

It was like tiny paid vacations for them all the time, they loved it.

If with customers, the capacity was 10, if just employees, they would cover the toilet and have that be a 11th seat.
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