markbach
ooo...i'm special!

markbach
:)

wharvey
Thanks for taking the time for this Randy...

wharvey
Im going to feel like a 1K with all this attention!

Randy Petersen
wharvey..........no oz, only 100% certified Randy....

wharvey
good to hear!

Randy Petersen
wharvey........are you not getting enough attention from UA lately?

wharvey
oh... actually, I am pleased with them... my first year with status... made PE last month...

wharvey
just glad I am not flying anymore this month... :)

BizJet
Yesterday and today isn't a good day to be flying into ORD...

wharvey
of course, almost any flight out of Rochester NY HAS to go through ORD... and we pay through the nose for that honor!

Randy Petersen
OK, who's got the first question? This is a small group and we can probably go without moderating if you all behave.....only kidding....

BizJet
wharvey: US flies to PHL/PIT...hehe

stargold
randy, have you heard anything about what's going to change with AC Aeroplan next year, with spin off of Aeroplan division and all...

stargold
?

AN-Diamond
.

BizJet
After answering StarGold, I'd really like to hear if you know anything knew about UA/US.

wharvey
OK RANDY... how about this.... what is your opinion on the who OZStamps issue here... I have been very disappointed on where the board has gone in the past couple of weeks

markbach
I'll ask the question that's on everyone's mind...Randy: What's your take on the ozstamps "situation"

wharvey
and Biz... why in the world would I want to fly US? :)

BizJet
Why in the world would anyone want to fly UA?

wharvey
HEY... they can get me nowhere quicker than US... :0

wharvey
:)

wharvey
hey Markbach... great minds think alike!!!

wharvey
are you sure we are not both Ozstamps? :)

markbach
maybe

wharvey
did we lose Randy?

stargold
maybe he's typing

Randy Petersen
Stargold - only that the change is really a marketing and financial change. Many frequent flyer programs have done just what Air Canada is doing, American for example. AAdvantage isn't really part of American any more, they actually buy seats from American. They have their own president and operate on a different P&L. These programs are truly a business. Even Asia Miles from Cathay Pacific is a separate division. I don't think this changes where they will take the program, it simply makes it easier since they can budget and grow at will rather than the old school way...

markbach
wharvey: nope, randy's a long winded typist :)

Randy Petersen
Sorry, I am a slow and inaccurate typer...

Randy Petersen
Now for UA/US....

wharvey
as long as the advice is not inaccurate, who cares about the typing!!!!!

havane
Randy, do you think US will continue giving away systemwides to all levels next year ?

Randy Petersen
I know nothing factual to add to what is already popular. There is increasing support in Congress to reject the merger with letters flying everywhere. The facts are that over the last 2 months, there has not been a single voice close to the decision process who is in favor of it and the latest research shows what we all suppose to be true, only one person will benefit from it....Steve Wolf and his $78 million golden parachute.....

Rssrsvp
Hi Randy, any update on your meeting with DL?

Randy Petersen
Rssrsvp....let me answer a previous question regarding Ozstamps first....

BizJet
If the merger falls through, do you see US Airways continuing to operate as an independent airline, or will he try to merge US with another airline, or break it up and sell the various divisions (transatlantic, shuttle, etc.)

Randy Petersen
Our friend down under - Oz. I've been a little behind in understanding the whole scenario. I've met Oz and he's pretty likeable and really not unlike many others on the board. It might he the Aussie in him to what FT represents, but I am personally aware of the latest information regarding the spoofing of multiple handles. As you might understand, we will always be in a damned if we do, damned if we don't situation. I've yet to see a majority of any opinion on the IP issue and, of course, moderating. It's really as close as the Florida elections. However. I do think we will start logging IP addresses not to look at, but to use in determining fair use of the board. We really have no personal interest in who you are and are sworn to secrecy for all that. We do have an interest in seeing everyone communicate on equal terms. (more)

jtg_seattle
Randy: I fly over 288K/year (actual flown miles). Currently, all my travel is on NW (my choice). Should I split that between UA or AA along with NW? One or two monthly trips to Asia and frequent travel in the US. I love NW's generous upgrade system (100% in F for the past three years on domestic flights, pay for WBC to Asia). The thought of flying in Y is upsetting if I switch to UA or AA. Any insight/advice?

wharvey
wow JTG... do you ever get off a plane? I am impressed!

Randy Petersen
As for Oz - I think it would be ill of me to comment more until I am as familiar with the situation as you are. I can say that by the end of the week, I will be prepared to comment more on this.... sorry I can't offer more at this time.

jtg_seattle
LOL - yes

wharvey
Thank you Randy....

jtg_seattle
Home NOW!!!!

wharvey
Do you get frequent flier miles for walking through your home door? :)

markbach
Randy: thanks, look forward to your comments

jtg_seattle
No, but my wife makes-up for that ;-)

wharvey
as long as it is frequent.. that is better than miles... I hope!!! :)

AN-Diamond
Randy: As the unofficial Australian High Commissioner to Flyertalk - we wish you all the best for the festive season - and we will be sure to have another beer on xmas day for you all :)

jtg_seattle
ROFL

markbach
hehe

burkey
hey brb

wharvey
OK.... stop typing Randy.... Burkey left!!!! :)

Randy Petersen
Delta question earlier. Kevin Pinto, the manager of the SkyMiles program was scheduled to visit our place late last week and unfortunately canceled at the last minute as the escalated pilot's issue put some additional workload on the marketing group to work on retention efforts. He was very kind to really apologize and of course i/we are disapointed because we had hoped to talk face-to-face regarding SaveSkyMiles since he was the quoted person in the Wall Street Journal article. At this point I have nothing to report on when that meeting may happen again but we do plan to email out to everyone by week's end, an update of all issues.

AN-Diamond
randy: out of the south pacific - what impact (if any) do you think the merger of NZ/AN will have on the market down here

Rssrsvp
When is the Atlanta paper releasing their article?

burkey
yeah, his quote in the WSJ, was that only 900 FF's signed up to "save skymiles"

Randy Petersen
Probably none. Visiting with them both just this last September lead me to believe it's business as usual and as you know, they still only count Qantas as the competition. ANZ actually had a pretty good program but Ansett is the leader in that marketplace. It does make AN a better program with the addition of the AZ fleet as an official program.

Randy Petersen
Not sure when the Atlanta paper is doing their thing, though i would suspect very soon. I will inquire tomorrow because, to my knowledge, they have not published anything regarding Delta other than the pilots situation recently......

Rssrsvp
When do you plan the next SSM chat? Many of us on the DL board are gun-shy when it comes to investing good miles after bad with DL for 2001.

Randy Petersen
The next chat probably won't be until at the start of the new year. But I have a tag phone call with Patrice Miles and Kevin to at least give you a sense of what they are thinking. The good thing is that they are aware of the efforts, the bad thing is that we don't know what else is being sent their way. We do hope we're not the only voices in this.

burkey
Randy -- You know that in Jan (the 9th to be specific) the AAers will be able to accrue miles on the rest of the Qualiflyer airlines... (not for elite status though)

Rssrsvp
Thanks again for all of your help. We sincerely appreciate it. If DL gets away with it, the others will follow.

Randy Petersen
Yes....AA is getting very cozy with the Qualiflyer folks, though the other airlines in the system are rather small........

BizJet
Earlier this year there were talks about DL/BA / BA/KL / etc along with the breakup of oneworld, changes to SkyTeams; are all of those things out the window now?

Randy Petersen
The reason on that is that they aren't officially part of oneworld....so elite is not that important...

burkey
true... LOT will be nice for additional flts to E Europe though. Just waiting for SAA to come back in the fold... on elite, SR and SN aren't oneworld "yet"

Randy Petersen
Everything we ever thought possible is up for grabs now. A simple comment on the industry right now is that, in spite of the concept of "alliances", everyone is still comfortable being a bit of a free agent. The unfortunate thing for most of them is that they don't have the legal talent of Star Alliance to keep themselves in play.

Randy Petersen
SAA hurt AA's feeling so i don't think you'll see them invited back very soon. Something about a "Dear John" letter rather than a pleasant phone call......

burkey
AA might have prompted that though... Cole Andrews at SAA wanted to expand the code-share with AA, but blamed AA for moving too slow with the deal

Randy Petersen
yes, the old calling the pot black trick....AA doesn't play well with others, can we say "Pan Am", "TWA" and the list goes on.....

burkey
Another interesting thing (not to turn this into the AA show) is that AA and JI are currently negotiating for renewal of the deal to award AA miles on JI flts. JI said only 1 in 4 travelers claim AA miles

Randy Petersen
might that have something to do with fare class?

burkey
don't think so, most JI fares qualify, even the cheapo W fares...

Rssrsvp
Randy, if I want to fly to Hong Kong, does either DL or AA have a partner that I can acquire base miles with?

Rssrsvp
Leaving from NYC.

burkey
With AA.. you have CX, JL, Asiana, EVA

BizJet
Rssrsvp...I'm not Randy but CX JFK-YVR-HKG will net you status AAdvantage miles (oneworld)

Randy Petersen
Sure, any of their alliance partners are base miles....For Delta, it's Korean and for American it's Cathay, JAL....

Randy Petersen
thanks BizJet.......you're correct with that connection through Vancouver.....

BizJet
DL you could do KE JFK-SEL-HKG, and if you don't want to do KE then JFK-CDG-HKG (somewhat facetious)

burkey
AA also has bonus promos running on JL if you go through NRT also

stargold
but it has to be AA flt. no. for it to be Q-miles

Rssrsvp
Any nonstop from NYC?

Randy Petersen
yea, AA does have a lot of international stuff going on, more so than DL to Asia.

BizJet
Nope. Not until CO/UA start nonstops in March 01

Randy Petersen
yep, don't fly til March......

Rssrsvp
LAX?

Randy Petersen
same choices as mentioned above....including Asiana and EVA

Rssrsvp
Thanks

BizJet
CX and UA fly HKG-LAX

stargold
asiana biz is not very good, old seats and NO PTVs!

Randy Petersen
ah....you had to learn the hard way......

BizJet
Randy...how do you think Continental and United will do with New York to HK, esp CO

stargold
given the choice, i'd choose CX over UA

burkey
that bad, eh? they had some cheapo's to Sin a while back and was tempted to try Asiana

Randy Petersen
I'd have to agree. I flex CX on my recent Asia trip and really was comfortable, though I was back in row 67 (really).

stargold
service is fine on any Asian carrier, so it's just down to food and seat (IFE included)

Rssrsvp
Randy, why are carriers like DL putting cattle car seats in Y on their 777's? AA is going the opposite way with more legroom.

Randy Petersen
As for CO and UA non-stop from NY.....this is a winner for time and convenience. I think anyone on the eastern seaboard would be well positioned to hub through NY just for that, rather than a connect via DFW or Atlanta or Chicago....

Randy Petersen
one word.....YIELD.

Randy Petersen
Actually, American is so big that their load factor was the smallest among the majors and they could afford to absorb the missing seats......the others could not......choice of aircraft and load factor make that decision......

Randy Petersen
Remember, that prior to doing so, AA was at least 5 load factor points behind both UA and DL......

BizJet
I'm at the 12 Days of Christmas thing and can't see where to enter my name...just the join MilesLink screen

burkey
Randy-- any help with the best way to move UA miles to AA miles without loosing a lot? (from winning one of the Starwood win the worlds)

Randy Petersen
you don't enter. if you got the email, we already have you registered and tomorrow at noon we'll pick one name at random....good luck.

BizJet
ah ok

stargold
thing is though, as someone said, AA loses a few rock bottom fares and they're the first airline in anyone's mind when they need a walk-up fare

markbach
brent: i'll take them

Rssrsvp
The new 777's on DL have no pitch, DL Express has more comfortable seats on their 737's.

BizJet
Which Win the World did you win Burkey? I guess I don't follow the SPG board enough, as I didn't discover the promo until the day after it ended

Randy Petersen
burkey.....i'm first inquisitive as to why you'd want to move them? Are they orphaned? with no expiration, it's a fairly easy task to hold on to them...

burkey
mark-- already got some deals worked out if i can't convert them

burkey
Randy -- just 50k closer to million miler, and I usually use miles for upgrade awards, just don't have any plans of flying UA

Randy Petersen
The real answer from me personally is what you just alluded to. I'd never use the industry solutions, I'd always work a deal with someone else for a side bet of i owe you and you owe me. The only downside of that is that it only works in even award amounts....

burkey
Yes, the UA and AA award amount are off, but we plan on using Starwood points to square things up

Randy Petersen
Then you've got a deal...don't dilute them.......

Rssrsvp
Randy, any news on AA & NW merger?

markbach
* Winners can choose to place their winning miles in any of the frequent travel programs partnered with ClickRewards. So if you win, you can choose United Mileage Plus miles rather than Canadian Plus points.

Randy Petersen
the idea of that merger only came about because of the UA/US stuff. There's no way in the common market it would happen, so it's been my information that no one has even furthered any talks.......it's defensive not offensive and you'd normally never see them both together on any issue. Yes, potential mergers do create strange bedfellows....

BizJet
Randy (since we're talking about other than strict FFPs tonight): what is your opinion on int'l 2-class vs. 3-class? From a business/passenger/FFP standpoint?

markbach
that's awesome :)

Randy Petersen
markbach....yes, it was as close as i could come to being a leapin' Lord......

markbach
:)

wharvey
Hey Randy... thanks for the 12 Days of Christmas email... HEY... does OZStamps have an advantage with three ID's? :)

markbach
i love the logos on all the ornaments/gifts

markbach
did you get those from the programs or have your graphics people do that?

BizJet
If no one claims a mileage prize from 12 Days, does it get thrown back into the pool like Win the World?

Randy Petersen
BizJet - for purely frequent flyer purposes i think the 3-class system is better as the variety of upgrades and awards had many more buckets. From the view of passenger comfort and care, it has certainly brought first class into the biz class cost area and i think they are better planes because of it. Other than the original First Class on BA, all airlines are a better product for it....you can't argue against BusinessFirst at Continental or the class of service at Virgin, but it has caused the demise of SWU's at Delta to name one of the hazards....

Randy Petersen
It gets thrown back in and truly someone could win all 78,000 miles. We did the entire project in-house.....

markbach
no lawyers and auditors?

markbach
independent certified accountants?

markbach
:)

BizJet
I don't know if you follow the CO board, but there is a debate over the new automated Elite upgrade system. What's your take? It's nothing new, as UA and AA both do it and no one complains there.

Randy Petersen
We're working on a similar program for the new year as we've bargained for a few rows of seats from AA and are designing a promotion for FT to give those seats away.....and only one personality will win.

burkey
Biz.. except for me about the AA e-upgrades. Been having some problems last several days

BizJet
what probs, burkey?

Randy Petersen
We actually have a CPA and lawyer to help us with these things, though I just throw them a mile or two from time to time because I don't want their fees to eat up my promo budget....

burkey
not clearing when doing it online, not being notified of upgrade, and it keeps assigning me window seats instead of aisle seats.. just annoying to have to call them up and waste my and their time over something so trivial as seat assignments

wharvey
hey Randy, those seats you got from AA... are they the ones they took out of their planes? :)

Randy Petersen
CO upgrades. I'm actually not a big fan of these types of changes for a single reason......I fear that the Gold and Silver (or similar lower elite levels) will never see the light of an upgrade. With just so many avalaible, there was always a chance that the Platinum guys and gals wouldn't call to confirm or were traveling in the back with someone else. Now......there's only scraps left over. Sorry if i offend the Platinum, but on this one, I'm in the corner for the little guy.....

Randy Petersen
wharvey....yep the very same ones. In fact, if you've ever flown AA, there's a mathematical chance you could win one you sat in years ago......rows of three seats apiece......

wharvey
ha ha

BizJet
But don't you think Platinums "deserve" the upgrades more? "Work Hard. Fly Right." Those who work the hardest (fly the most miles) get to fly right, in First Class...

Randy Petersen
oh...one more thing...these are coach seats. sorry.

wharvey
HHHmmm... available for electronic upgrade? :)

burkey
any trivia tonight?

markbach
yeah

markbach
trivia

stargold
serious question though... i'd love to buy an old F/C seat! just one of those "replaced" ones

wharvey
Mark... trivia question... which ID in this room is probably OZStamps... :)

markbach
me?

wharvey
i thought it was me!

markbach
everyone seems to think I'm ozstamps

FewMiles
Stand up and say "I'm spartacus"

wharvey
do they actually sell them Star?

stargold
i don't know, that's what i'm asking... where do i ask?

Randy Petersen
BizJet - i fully understand the ramifications of what i said. There is a reality that not everyone who doesn't fly 50 times a year is not loyal and thus not deserving of being special. I know far more people that fly 26,000 miles a year and give 100% of their business to an airline than guys who fly 76,000 and give 100%.....as i said, tough to be politically correct on this but someone has to stand up for the little guy....after all, the Platinums get special accommodations on seats being available for award usage, etc.

markbach
but first of all, i've never touched an ak47

wharvey
we have that in common!

Randy Petersen
OK, let's end this session with some trivia......get ready:

markbach
ok...

Randy Petersen
how about 500 miles for this one coming up, any major program represented tonight....

markbach
you mean anyone in Clickmiles?

Rssrsvp
how about an SWU?

BizJet
I'm ready (and I see your point, Randy)

burkey
.

markbach
..

BizJet
...

wharvey
Thanks Randy... this was a fun and informative session!!!!

Randy Petersen
The trivia question is: Pan Am's WorldPass program was connected at one time to both the Delta and American frequent flyer programs. Which connection came first? AA or DL?

BizJet
DL

FewMiles
AA

markbach
dl\

wharvey
DL

BizJet
50/50 chance...

stargold
just like being able to guess left from right in 2 goes... ;-p

Randy Petersen
fewmiles is the winner.....connected first to AA three years before the DL connection....

markbach
ha

markbach
nice

BizJet
ugh

wharvey
way to go FEWMILES!!!!

FewMiles
"AA" is easier to type than "DL"!!!

markbach
hahaha

BizJet
true!

FewMiles
Thanks, Randy!!!

Randy Petersen
you want one more?

BizJet
yes

stargold
ROTFL

Rssrsvp
go

wharvey
or you can just give us all miles... :)

wharvey
we wont tell

Randy Petersen
here goes......get ready for the final 500 mile trivia:

burkey
sure

BizJet
ok

markbach

Randy Petersen
Can you earn United Mileage Plus miles when using AT&T telephone service in any way - answer is True or False....

wharvey
he got stuck in CHicago

markbach
true

wharvey
TRUE

BizJet
FALSE

burkey
ture

Rssrsvp
false

FewMiles
neither.

FewMiles
:)

stargold
does misspelt answers count?

Randy Petersen
the answer is True and markbach wins that one....

markbach
bam!

wharvey
way to go OZ!!! :)

FewMiles
Way to go!

stargold
LOL

wharvey
expecting to get slapped for that comment!

BizJet
FewMiles: You e-mailed me a few weeks ago about the AA 2MM program, but my reply bounced back

burkey
.

markbach
nah...i'm not oz...i know i'm not oz...nothing to be worried about

Randy Petersen
AT&T is not an official partner of United (MCI is) but you can use both Marriott or Starwood and their AT&T partnerships to earn points converted to UA miles.....

wharvey
just kidding Mark!!!

markbach
yeah, through SPG is what i was thinking

Rssrsvp
Randy, as always, thanks for the pleasure of your company.

markbach
thanks Randy

wharvey
Randy... thanks again... this was fun!

FewMiles
Thanks, Randy!

BizJet
thanks randy

burkey
thanks again Randy... will you be making an appearance in NY in March?

Randy Petersen
Thanks all........we'll probably beg off a later chat tonight so we can all go Christmas shopping...see you all next time and don't forget to check out tomorrow on WebFlyer to see if you win one of the 12 Days of Christmas......