Question: Refused help over booking by Air Canada
Dec 30, 2008 | 7:03 am
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: PHL, NYC, DC
Posts: 9,739
Refused help over booking by Air Canada
I have been shut out by Air Canada's Customer Service Department, Reservations Center and Ticketing Department over a booking I had with them.
This booking had unused flight credits from three earlier cancelled trips
1.Nov 2007 Toronto to Victoria
2.Oct 2008 Toronto to Washington DC
3.Oct 2008 Washington DC to Toronto
The combined value totaled $1359 + taxes and change fees.
NOVEMBER 2008
-------------
In November 2008, I have decided to use the unused flight credits to visit my family in Singapore for February 2009. The fare via Nartia to Singapore on aircanada.com at that time was approximately $1560 taxes inclusive. Base fare of $1100 + taxes.
Because this was a flight credit, I had to call Air Canada to match the same fare and was told the fare and tax difference would be $450 less $50 US tax refund. Most of the $450 pertained to the taxes and a change fee of $105. I received this E-ticket several days later indicating it was issued on November 24th.
NOVEMBER - DECEMBER 2008
----------------------------
In my follow-up conversation with Air Canada reservations staff, I understand the base fare portion of the ticket was under-utilized and because the booking was not ticketed yet, I can make changes without penalty. So I made a change via Hong Kong on the way home, specifically indicating to the staff on the basis that there is no net impact on the fare. I was further told that with a stopover in Hong Kong I was told there would only be a $52.50 change fee but no difference to fare or taxes. I agreed to the $52.50 change fee and no net impact to the fares, so the ticket was sent for processing.
10 - 12 DECEMBER 2008
-----------------------
On December 10th I received a revised ticket from Toronto - Narita - Singapore - Hong Kong (as temporary transit connection and not stopover) - Toronto, with a fare total of $1674, additional taxes of $450, an additional surcharge of $759 and change fee of $105 and stopover fee of $52.50. This also reflected on my credit card bill between December 10th - 12th 2008 as $759 + $105 + $52.50.
13 DECEMBER 2008
------------------
I called Air Canada reservations staff on December 13th and spent an hour and half over the phone over the $759 + $105 + $52.50 charges. My concern was their initial quote in November 2008 was $450 inclusive of change fee but it appeared as $759 + $105, plus the $52.50 stopover in Hong Kong that was never represented on 10 December ticket. Staff suggest the higher fare was due to the re-route to Hong Kong, however they were willing to honor their initial (lower) November 2008 fare if i retained the initial itinerary via Nartia both directions. As for the $52.50, this particular staff suggest it was a surcharge to revalidate my November 2007 credit (worth over $200) from Toronto to Victoria. At the end of the phone conversation I was told the fare + tax differences should be around $350, awaiting their ticketing department for finalization.
16 DECEMBER 2008
------------------
I filed a complaint to Air Canada, through their Customer Care website expressing my concern and frustration in dealing with reservations staff in honoring their phone conversation fare commitments.
17-28 DECEMBER 2008
----------------------
I never received the E-ticket from my December 13th conversation and attempted following up a few days later. However, due to the North American weather-delays during Christmas 2008, I cannot call through their reservations center and was advised by their automated call system to postpone non-urgent calls. I understood they had more urgent calls to get people home during the holidays, so I waited patiently until the first opportunity.
29 - 30 DECEMBER 2008
-----------------------
I called Air Canada reservations again to follow-up on my E-ticket and fare adjustments, but was told my conversation on 13 December 2008 was not recorded.
Upon request, I received the revised itinerary Toronto - Singapore - Toronto via Narita both ways, but the fare and surcharges were exactly the same as Hong Kong on my December 10th ticket.
When I asked for more detailed information, I was further told off by this particular staff that I should have call immediately and corrected the problem when I saw it, but the fact was their phone was busy and I never received any ticket since.
I was told that because ticketing, reservations, rates, customer service and several call centers got involved their department has refused to help me, provide any comments but to say the fare was correct, allow me to speak to a supervisor, provide her name and provide any indication on who can help me.
I escalated to several reservations staff, supervisor and rates department but was told there will be no more discussion and resolution to this booking due to its complexity and the fact I exhausted all avenues of discussion with their staff. I asked for a detailed price breakdown, but was refused.
CONSEQUENCES
---------------
As a result of this incident, I have spent over 3 hours on the phone for a simple transaction. In addition, I now have to pay a total of $916.50 less $125 refund they provided me on December 11th. The initial quote back in November 2008 was approximately $450.
My concern is that all the discussions with Air Canada were telephone conversations because their reservations are call center based. My credit card company cannot do anything about these transactions because it was verbal.
I am very lost right now. I am a frequent flyer and Elite (Star Alliance Gold) member with Air Canada and even with that status there is no avenue to speak to anyone. I hope you frequent flyers / staff / media / anyone with Air Canada call center troubleshooting experiences can provide me some insight and assistance into this matter.
This booking had unused flight credits from three earlier cancelled trips
1.Nov 2007 Toronto to Victoria
2.Oct 2008 Toronto to Washington DC
3.Oct 2008 Washington DC to Toronto
The combined value totaled $1359 + taxes and change fees.
NOVEMBER 2008
-------------
In November 2008, I have decided to use the unused flight credits to visit my family in Singapore for February 2009. The fare via Nartia to Singapore on aircanada.com at that time was approximately $1560 taxes inclusive. Base fare of $1100 + taxes.
Because this was a flight credit, I had to call Air Canada to match the same fare and was told the fare and tax difference would be $450 less $50 US tax refund. Most of the $450 pertained to the taxes and a change fee of $105. I received this E-ticket several days later indicating it was issued on November 24th.
NOVEMBER - DECEMBER 2008
----------------------------
In my follow-up conversation with Air Canada reservations staff, I understand the base fare portion of the ticket was under-utilized and because the booking was not ticketed yet, I can make changes without penalty. So I made a change via Hong Kong on the way home, specifically indicating to the staff on the basis that there is no net impact on the fare. I was further told that with a stopover in Hong Kong I was told there would only be a $52.50 change fee but no difference to fare or taxes. I agreed to the $52.50 change fee and no net impact to the fares, so the ticket was sent for processing.
10 - 12 DECEMBER 2008
-----------------------
On December 10th I received a revised ticket from Toronto - Narita - Singapore - Hong Kong (as temporary transit connection and not stopover) - Toronto, with a fare total of $1674, additional taxes of $450, an additional surcharge of $759 and change fee of $105 and stopover fee of $52.50. This also reflected on my credit card bill between December 10th - 12th 2008 as $759 + $105 + $52.50.
13 DECEMBER 2008
------------------
I called Air Canada reservations staff on December 13th and spent an hour and half over the phone over the $759 + $105 + $52.50 charges. My concern was their initial quote in November 2008 was $450 inclusive of change fee but it appeared as $759 + $105, plus the $52.50 stopover in Hong Kong that was never represented on 10 December ticket. Staff suggest the higher fare was due to the re-route to Hong Kong, however they were willing to honor their initial (lower) November 2008 fare if i retained the initial itinerary via Nartia both directions. As for the $52.50, this particular staff suggest it was a surcharge to revalidate my November 2007 credit (worth over $200) from Toronto to Victoria. At the end of the phone conversation I was told the fare + tax differences should be around $350, awaiting their ticketing department for finalization.
16 DECEMBER 2008
------------------
I filed a complaint to Air Canada, through their Customer Care website expressing my concern and frustration in dealing with reservations staff in honoring their phone conversation fare commitments.
17-28 DECEMBER 2008
----------------------
I never received the E-ticket from my December 13th conversation and attempted following up a few days later. However, due to the North American weather-delays during Christmas 2008, I cannot call through their reservations center and was advised by their automated call system to postpone non-urgent calls. I understood they had more urgent calls to get people home during the holidays, so I waited patiently until the first opportunity.
29 - 30 DECEMBER 2008
-----------------------
I called Air Canada reservations again to follow-up on my E-ticket and fare adjustments, but was told my conversation on 13 December 2008 was not recorded.
Upon request, I received the revised itinerary Toronto - Singapore - Toronto via Narita both ways, but the fare and surcharges were exactly the same as Hong Kong on my December 10th ticket.
When I asked for more detailed information, I was further told off by this particular staff that I should have call immediately and corrected the problem when I saw it, but the fact was their phone was busy and I never received any ticket since.
I was told that because ticketing, reservations, rates, customer service and several call centers got involved their department has refused to help me, provide any comments but to say the fare was correct, allow me to speak to a supervisor, provide her name and provide any indication on who can help me.
I escalated to several reservations staff, supervisor and rates department but was told there will be no more discussion and resolution to this booking due to its complexity and the fact I exhausted all avenues of discussion with their staff. I asked for a detailed price breakdown, but was refused.
CONSEQUENCES
---------------
As a result of this incident, I have spent over 3 hours on the phone for a simple transaction. In addition, I now have to pay a total of $916.50 less $125 refund they provided me on December 11th. The initial quote back in November 2008 was approximately $450.
My concern is that all the discussions with Air Canada were telephone conversations because their reservations are call center based. My credit card company cannot do anything about these transactions because it was verbal.
I am very lost right now. I am a frequent flyer and Elite (Star Alliance Gold) member with Air Canada and even with that status there is no avenue to speak to anyone. I hope you frequent flyers / staff / media / anyone with Air Canada call center troubleshooting experiences can provide me some insight and assistance into this matter.
Last edited by global happy traveller; Dec 30, 2008 at 9:05 pm Reason: Clarification Purposes
Dec 30, 2008 | 12:12 pm
#2
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Programs: OWEmerald; STARGold; BonvoyPlat; IHGPlat/Amb; HiltonGold; A|ClubPat; AirMilesPlat
Posts: 38,187
It is not clear from reading your story when you are actually traveling on this ticket. I suggest you re-write what transpired, point by point, numbering each sentence 1, 2, 3 etc. for clarity. Then post or fax to AC's Customer Solutions department in Calgary and await a reply. It does not appear to be resolvable over the phone and I am not sure any of us here can help you.
Dec 30, 2008 | 1:30 pm
#3
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: YEG
Posts: 3,925
Are you talking about using 2 or 3 separate flight credits? (i.e. was the Toronto-Washington-Toronto under 1 or 2 booking references; I assume Toronto-Victoria was separate). I'm not sure if this will help you at all, but you might also want to check the status of each of your previous 2 or 3 flight credits to see if there is any remaining value. In the past, I have not been able to combine individual flight credits for a new itin. It is possible that they only applied one of the credits against your itin, resulting in a larger than anticipated fare difference.
I'm also confused by the numbers you used; you stated that the 3 credits had a combined value of $1359+ and that the Toronto-Washington-Toronto had a value of $1359+. Which is it?
I'm also confused by the numbers you used; you stated that the 3 credits had a combined value of $1359+ and that the Toronto-Washington-Toronto had a value of $1359+. Which is it?
Dec 30, 2008 | 2:37 pm
#4
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Canada
Programs: AC SE 2MM, HH Dd, Bonvoy G; IC S; AA; DL
Posts: 14,369
Could be some fuel surcharges being charged in here too.
YES MUCH MORE INFORMATION NEEDED before any assessment can be done. It may be why you are having problems resolving it with Air Canada.
Be as detailed as you can:
TICKET 014-XXXXXXXX, Booking Reference XYZABC
IAD-YYZ November 4
Fare = $500
YQ= $150
XT = $25.00
etc etc.
Is this a flight pass? (in whole or in part). Do you have MCOs? Not sure what you mean by flight credits . . .
PS--don't give us your actual ticket and reference numbers but send them to Air Canada.
YES MUCH MORE INFORMATION NEEDED before any assessment can be done. It may be why you are having problems resolving it with Air Canada.
Be as detailed as you can:
TICKET 014-XXXXXXXX, Booking Reference XYZABC
IAD-YYZ November 4
Fare = $500
YQ= $150
XT = $25.00
etc etc.
Is this a flight pass? (in whole or in part). Do you have MCOs? Not sure what you mean by flight credits . . .
PS--don't give us your actual ticket and reference numbers but send them to Air Canada.
Dec 30, 2008 | 3:49 pm
#5
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: PHL, NYC, DC
Posts: 9,739
Hello all thank you for your inital responses. Here are the details according to all the air tickets thats been collected in my e-mail:
Booking Reference: The same all along the way
1. 8 - 13 Nov 2007
YYJ --> YYZ --> YYJ
Value: $595.00 + Change Fee: $42.40
Return trip was cancelled and credited.
2. 3 Oct 2008 (Cancelled one-day return trip)
YYZ --> IAD --> YYZ
Fare (incl. Navcan/Surcharges): $1359.00
Taxes & Fees: 6.55 (CA) + 43.18 (XG) + 51.59 (XT)
Total Fare: $958.32 + Change Fee/GST: $52.50
Fare Calculation: 03OCT08YYJ AC X/YVR AC YTO Q23.00R231.00AC WAS Q7.50R545.00AC YTO Q7.50R545.00CAD1359.00 END ROE1.00 XT31.88US5.17XA7.24XY2.59AY PD9.34CA32.48XG30.00SQ XF4.71IAD4.50
3. 9 - 20 Feb 2009 (Tix issued on Nov 24, 2008)
YYZ --> YVR --> NRT --> SIN --> NRT --> YVR --> YYZ
Fare (incl. Navcan/Surcharges): $1359.00
Taxes & Fees: 6.55 (CA) + 43.18 (XG) + 51.59 (XT)
Total Fare: $958.32 + Change Fee/GST: $52.50
Fare Calculation: 03OCT08YYJ AC X/YVR AC YTO Q23.00R231.00AC WAS Q7.50R545.00AC YTO Q7.50R545.00CAD1359.00 END ROE1.00 XT31.88US5.17XA7.24XY2.59AY PD9.34CA32.48XG30.00SQ XF4.71IAD4.50
4. 9 - 20 Feb 2009 (Tix issued on Dec 10, 2008)
YYZ --> YVR --> NRT --> SIN --> HKG --> YYZ
Advised by staff that I can route to HK for the same fare / do stopover for $52.50
Fare (incl. Navcan/Surcharges): $1674.00
Taxes & Fees: 1.11 (CA) + 443.51 (XT)
Total Fare: $759.62 + Change Fee/GST: $105.00
PRF125.75CAD/RCN 15475653
Fare Calculation: 09FEB09YYJ AC X/YVR AC YTO Q21.61R217.04AC YVR Q21.60R172.87AC X/YTO AC SIN R323.20AC X/HKG AC YTO Q4.22R811.77NUC1572.31 END ROE1.064330 XT420.00YQ23.51SGPD15.89CA1.50XG30.00SQ
5. 9 - 20 Feb 2009 (Tix issued on Dec 29, 2008)
YYZ --> YVR --> NRT --> SIN --> NRT --> YVR --> YYZ
After getting $900 bill, I was fffered to reroute back via Narita for the Nov 24 lower fare. Trip changed but not the pricing.
Fare (incl. Navcan/Surcharges): $1674.00
Taxes & Fees: 1.11 (CA) + 443.51 (XT)
Total Fare: $759.62 + Change Fee/GST: $105.00
PRF125.75CAD/RCN 15475653
Fare Calculation: 09FEB09YYJ AC X/YVR AC YTO Q21.61R217.04AC YVR Q21.60R172.87AC X/YTO AC SIN R323.20AC X/HKG AC YTO Q4.22R811.77NUC1572.31 END ROE1.064330 XT420.00YQ23.51SGPD15.89CA1.50XG30.00SQ
Now I've been told that my booking has been blacklisted and I will not be able to make any more changes, questions, get a breakdown of fare nor get refund.
Booking Reference: The same all along the way
1. 8 - 13 Nov 2007
YYJ --> YYZ --> YYJ
Value: $595.00 + Change Fee: $42.40
Return trip was cancelled and credited.
2. 3 Oct 2008 (Cancelled one-day return trip)
YYZ --> IAD --> YYZ
Fare (incl. Navcan/Surcharges): $1359.00
Taxes & Fees: 6.55 (CA) + 43.18 (XG) + 51.59 (XT)
Total Fare: $958.32 + Change Fee/GST: $52.50
Fare Calculation: 03OCT08YYJ AC X/YVR AC YTO Q23.00R231.00AC WAS Q7.50R545.00AC YTO Q7.50R545.00CAD1359.00 END ROE1.00 XT31.88US5.17XA7.24XY2.59AY PD9.34CA32.48XG30.00SQ XF4.71IAD4.50
3. 9 - 20 Feb 2009 (Tix issued on Nov 24, 2008)
YYZ --> YVR --> NRT --> SIN --> NRT --> YVR --> YYZ
Fare (incl. Navcan/Surcharges): $1359.00
Taxes & Fees: 6.55 (CA) + 43.18 (XG) + 51.59 (XT)
Total Fare: $958.32 + Change Fee/GST: $52.50
Fare Calculation: 03OCT08YYJ AC X/YVR AC YTO Q23.00R231.00AC WAS Q7.50R545.00AC YTO Q7.50R545.00CAD1359.00 END ROE1.00 XT31.88US5.17XA7.24XY2.59AY PD9.34CA32.48XG30.00SQ XF4.71IAD4.50
4. 9 - 20 Feb 2009 (Tix issued on Dec 10, 2008)
YYZ --> YVR --> NRT --> SIN --> HKG --> YYZ
Advised by staff that I can route to HK for the same fare / do stopover for $52.50
Fare (incl. Navcan/Surcharges): $1674.00
Taxes & Fees: 1.11 (CA) + 443.51 (XT)
Total Fare: $759.62 + Change Fee/GST: $105.00
PRF125.75CAD/RCN 15475653
Fare Calculation: 09FEB09YYJ AC X/YVR AC YTO Q21.61R217.04AC YVR Q21.60R172.87AC X/YTO AC SIN R323.20AC X/HKG AC YTO Q4.22R811.77NUC1572.31 END ROE1.064330 XT420.00YQ23.51SGPD15.89CA1.50XG30.00SQ
5. 9 - 20 Feb 2009 (Tix issued on Dec 29, 2008)
YYZ --> YVR --> NRT --> SIN --> NRT --> YVR --> YYZ
After getting $900 bill, I was fffered to reroute back via Narita for the Nov 24 lower fare. Trip changed but not the pricing.
Fare (incl. Navcan/Surcharges): $1674.00
Taxes & Fees: 1.11 (CA) + 443.51 (XT)
Total Fare: $759.62 + Change Fee/GST: $105.00
PRF125.75CAD/RCN 15475653
Fare Calculation: 09FEB09YYJ AC X/YVR AC YTO Q21.61R217.04AC YVR Q21.60R172.87AC X/YTO AC SIN R323.20AC X/HKG AC YTO Q4.22R811.77NUC1572.31 END ROE1.064330 XT420.00YQ23.51SGPD15.89CA1.50XG30.00SQ
Now I've been told that my booking has been blacklisted and I will not be able to make any more changes, questions, get a breakdown of fare nor get refund.
Dec 30, 2008 | 4:07 pm
#6
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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Posts: 38,187
Well, first off, the initial flight between Victoria and Toronto may have thoroughly lapsed insofar as having any credit value. Tickets are valid for one year from the date of purchase, not the initial date of travel. You say in your original post that you decided in November of this year to book the SIN trip, so this may well be the source of the additional cost since I would doubt that credit would be valid for use on a new ticket. What date did you purchase that ticket on (must be before Nov 8th 2007 departure)? You said you cancelled the return, so how much was the balance of the residual value?
Yikes, why would you spend that much flying from Toronto to Washington? Are you a lobbyist or a lawyer?!
I still suspect the problem is with the first ticket having had its value cancelled because it was not used for a new ticket within a year of being purchased.
Yikes, why would you spend that much flying from Toronto to Washington? Are you a lobbyist or a lawyer?!
I still suspect the problem is with the first ticket having had its value cancelled because it was not used for a new ticket within a year of being purchased.
Dec 30, 2008 | 5:37 pm
#7
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: PHL, NYC, DC
Posts: 9,739
well i was told the victoria credit could be brought forward along with the washington portion however because over a year has lapsed there will be a $52.50 charge. However this statement has been inconsistent amongst AC staff, some said they charged, some said they waived it, some do not know it at all but I do see an additional $52.50 on Dec 10 in my credit card bill.
I am not a lobbyist, but a transportation consultant. Many projects and conferences around the continent. Been flying AC for a while, but this is the biggest issue with them so far.
I am not a lobbyist, but a transportation consultant. Many projects and conferences around the continent. Been flying AC for a while, but this is the biggest issue with them so far.
Dec 30, 2008 | 9:38 pm
#8
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 142
First of all let me start by saying I am not a rates expert.
Here is my attempt to explain what I see from the details you have provided.
3. 9 - 20 Feb 2009 (Tix issued on Nov 24, 2008)
YYZ --> YVR --> NRT --> SIN --> NRT --> YVR --> YYZ
Fare (incl. Navcan/Surcharges): $1359.00Taxes & Fees: 6.55 (CA) + 43.18 (XG) + 51.59 (XT)
Total Fare: $958.32 + Change Fee/GST: $52.50
Fare Calculation: 03OCT08YYJ AC X/YVR AC YTO Q23.00R231.00AC WAS Q7.50R545.00AC YTO Q7.50R545.00CAD1359.00 END ROE1.00 XT31.88US5.17XA7.24XY2.59AY PD9.34CA32.48XG30.00SQ XF4.71IAD4.50
4. 9 - 20 Feb 2009 (Tix issued on Dec 10, 2008)
YYZ --> YVR --> NRT --> SIN --> HKG --> YYZ
Advised by staff that I can route to HK for the same fare / do stopover for $52.50
Fare (incl. Navcan/Surcharges): $1674.00Taxes & Fees: 1.11 (CA) + 443.51 (XT)
Total Fare: $759.62 + Change Fee/GST: $105.00
PRF125.75CAD/RCN 15475653
Fare Calculation: 09FEB09YYJ AC X/YVR AC YTO Q21.61R217.04AC YVR Q21.60R172.87AC X/YTO AC SIN R323.20AC X/HKG AC YTO Q4.22R811.77NUC1572.31 END ROE1.064330 XT420.00YQ23.51SGPD15.89CA1.50XG30.00SQ
Looking at the above details only...I can see that the $759.62 is reached by taking your base fare in item 4.9 minus your base fare in item 3.9 then adding the additional ca tax $1.11 and adding the taxes/surcharges for the international ticket. So the long calc would be
$1674.00- $1359 = $ 359.00 additional base
add dif in ca tax $1.11
add int'l surcharges $443.51
total adcol $759.62$ plus change fee
also appears that you got a part refund of 125.75 which would be for your unused taxes/airport fees.
Pls note, I do not consider myself a fares expert...this is just what I can see from the calculations that you provided.
I must say that the reason you were told you are not allowed any changes is most likely to do with the fact that somehow someone allowed you to use an expired ticket beyond the ticket extension validity allowances.
I am however confused by the amounts you mention for change fees on each item. Have you made a change to your original trip before cancelling the ticket? I am not sure why you show a change fee there.
Also looks like the next changes you made you were charge only 1 change fee each time instead of 50.00 cad pls tax per direction. Just an observation.
Hope the above makes a bit of sense to you. Not actually seeing the file and not being part of the conversations, I cannot give you more than that.
Here is my attempt to explain what I see from the details you have provided.
3. 9 - 20 Feb 2009 (Tix issued on Nov 24, 2008)
YYZ --> YVR --> NRT --> SIN --> NRT --> YVR --> YYZ
Fare (incl. Navcan/Surcharges): $1359.00Taxes & Fees: 6.55 (CA) + 43.18 (XG) + 51.59 (XT)
Total Fare: $958.32 + Change Fee/GST: $52.50
Fare Calculation: 03OCT08YYJ AC X/YVR AC YTO Q23.00R231.00AC WAS Q7.50R545.00AC YTO Q7.50R545.00CAD1359.00 END ROE1.00 XT31.88US5.17XA7.24XY2.59AY PD9.34CA32.48XG30.00SQ XF4.71IAD4.50
4. 9 - 20 Feb 2009 (Tix issued on Dec 10, 2008)
YYZ --> YVR --> NRT --> SIN --> HKG --> YYZ
Advised by staff that I can route to HK for the same fare / do stopover for $52.50
Fare (incl. Navcan/Surcharges): $1674.00Taxes & Fees: 1.11 (CA) + 443.51 (XT)
Total Fare: $759.62 + Change Fee/GST: $105.00
PRF125.75CAD/RCN 15475653
Fare Calculation: 09FEB09YYJ AC X/YVR AC YTO Q21.61R217.04AC YVR Q21.60R172.87AC X/YTO AC SIN R323.20AC X/HKG AC YTO Q4.22R811.77NUC1572.31 END ROE1.064330 XT420.00YQ23.51SGPD15.89CA1.50XG30.00SQ
Looking at the above details only...I can see that the $759.62 is reached by taking your base fare in item 4.9 minus your base fare in item 3.9 then adding the additional ca tax $1.11 and adding the taxes/surcharges for the international ticket. So the long calc would be
$1674.00- $1359 = $ 359.00 additional base
add dif in ca tax $1.11
add int'l surcharges $443.51
total adcol $759.62$ plus change fee
also appears that you got a part refund of 125.75 which would be for your unused taxes/airport fees.
Pls note, I do not consider myself a fares expert...this is just what I can see from the calculations that you provided.
I must say that the reason you were told you are not allowed any changes is most likely to do with the fact that somehow someone allowed you to use an expired ticket beyond the ticket extension validity allowances.
I am however confused by the amounts you mention for change fees on each item. Have you made a change to your original trip before cancelling the ticket? I am not sure why you show a change fee there.
Also looks like the next changes you made you were charge only 1 change fee each time instead of 50.00 cad pls tax per direction. Just an observation.
Hope the above makes a bit of sense to you. Not actually seeing the file and not being part of the conversations, I cannot give you more than that.
Dec 31, 2008 | 3:50 am
#9
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Little dot in Asia
Programs: AA-EP, TK-*G, HL-DM, HY-GLO, MR-LTP
Posts: 25,940
I agree with RESGIRL on this. It seems that the first agent might have made an error in allowing you to use your first flight credit together with the remainder of the ticket. AFAIK flight credits cannot be combined, and in this case AC did, it makes reissuing a total headache.
FYI : There's something wrong in your fare calculation as quoted by you -
Fare Calculation: 09FEB09YYJ AC X/YVR AC YTO Q21.61R217.04AC YVR Q21.60R172.87AC X/YTO AC SIN R323.20AC X/HKG AC YTO Q4.22R811.77NUC1572.31 END ROE1.064330 XT420.00YQ23.51SGPD15.89CA1.50XG30.00SQ
Why are you flying... YYJ - x/YVR - YYZ and then back to YVR and back to YYZ, then straight to SIN. How are you getting from YYZ to SIN. Where is your NRT transit? Then from SIN - x/HKG - YYZ. Where is the end point? YYJ? From how I see it, the fare calculation is entirely wrong anyway! No wonder no one wants to touch it anymore!
If it might help you in any way, GO to the nearest airport and AC ticketing counter and sort out your ticket there and then. AC res people are not fares/ticketing people and they take all info down to be relayed to the fares department. The fares dept will have to go with what the fare rules say, and usually their account is very different.
But the airport ticketing staff are very well versed in all ticketing aspects. They will look at your case and try to see where the problem lies. So I would suggest in not wasting your time calling AC res anymore and just go to an actual ticketing desk.
Remember though what the first/2nd/3rd call centre agents said will now be irrelevant when you're talking to the ticketing agents cos they will go according to the rules of the ticket, the fare credits and the rules based on your ORIGINAL tickets.
Good luck.
FYI : There's something wrong in your fare calculation as quoted by you -
Fare Calculation: 09FEB09YYJ AC X/YVR AC YTO Q21.61R217.04AC YVR Q21.60R172.87AC X/YTO AC SIN R323.20AC X/HKG AC YTO Q4.22R811.77NUC1572.31 END ROE1.064330 XT420.00YQ23.51SGPD15.89CA1.50XG30.00SQ
Why are you flying... YYJ - x/YVR - YYZ and then back to YVR and back to YYZ, then straight to SIN. How are you getting from YYZ to SIN. Where is your NRT transit? Then from SIN - x/HKG - YYZ. Where is the end point? YYJ? From how I see it, the fare calculation is entirely wrong anyway! No wonder no one wants to touch it anymore!
If it might help you in any way, GO to the nearest airport and AC ticketing counter and sort out your ticket there and then. AC res people are not fares/ticketing people and they take all info down to be relayed to the fares department. The fares dept will have to go with what the fare rules say, and usually their account is very different.
But the airport ticketing staff are very well versed in all ticketing aspects. They will look at your case and try to see where the problem lies. So I would suggest in not wasting your time calling AC res anymore and just go to an actual ticketing desk.
Remember though what the first/2nd/3rd call centre agents said will now be irrelevant when you're talking to the ticketing agents cos they will go according to the rules of the ticket, the fare credits and the rules based on your ORIGINAL tickets.
Good luck.
Last edited by Guy Betsy; Dec 31, 2008 at 4:01 am
Dec 31, 2008 | 8:21 am
#10
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: PHL, NYC, DC
Posts: 9,739
RESGIRL:
I agree with how you have derived the cost as per the ticket.
However....
1. I was quoted by staff back in November and early December the price to be $1,569 inclusive of taxes everything. Now its $1450 inclusive of everything. I was told my basefare of travel credits was $1,200 and basefare throughout this period (even if you see online now) has always been in the $1,100 range. After recieving the ticket, it says the fare + surcharges are $1,674 with no additional explaination or breakdown of fares. I agree there will be $300 - $500 of additional taxes and surcharges, but not $759.
2. When they offered to re-route me back via Narita on Dec 13 it would be the inital fare. But compare Dec 10 and 29 tickets, they changed the trip but not the fare.
3. AC001/AC002 stopsover in Vancouver now enroute. And I dont know why, now they other domestic flights instead between YYZ-YVR before transferring to AC001/002.
I am not that technical into calculating airfares as some of you are, but I fly YYZ-SIN-YYZ several times a year, and had I known $900 during a low February season, there are other alternatives!
GUY BETSY:
Thanks for your insight.... I am sure something is wrong with the calculations, but no one would explain and nor give me a breakdown into fundamentals. Then they even refused to disclose the basefare, Navcan + surcharges to me. When I talk to AC Res staff, I felt there's incompetencies in their calculations. I was told everything was calculated manually then of course a different top-up fare each time. I already spent 4-5 hours on the phone with them, do you think I should drive an additional 2 hours + park at the airport? I feel skeptical because there is a modification ban on my booking reference now and its just taking up too much time, effort and energy in a losing battle.
I agree with how you have derived the cost as per the ticket.
However....
1. I was quoted by staff back in November and early December the price to be $1,569 inclusive of taxes everything. Now its $1450 inclusive of everything. I was told my basefare of travel credits was $1,200 and basefare throughout this period (even if you see online now) has always been in the $1,100 range. After recieving the ticket, it says the fare + surcharges are $1,674 with no additional explaination or breakdown of fares. I agree there will be $300 - $500 of additional taxes and surcharges, but not $759.
2. When they offered to re-route me back via Narita on Dec 13 it would be the inital fare. But compare Dec 10 and 29 tickets, they changed the trip but not the fare.
3. AC001/AC002 stopsover in Vancouver now enroute. And I dont know why, now they other domestic flights instead between YYZ-YVR before transferring to AC001/002.
I am not that technical into calculating airfares as some of you are, but I fly YYZ-SIN-YYZ several times a year, and had I known $900 during a low February season, there are other alternatives!
GUY BETSY:
Thanks for your insight.... I am sure something is wrong with the calculations, but no one would explain and nor give me a breakdown into fundamentals. Then they even refused to disclose the basefare, Navcan + surcharges to me. When I talk to AC Res staff, I felt there's incompetencies in their calculations. I was told everything was calculated manually then of course a different top-up fare each time. I already spent 4-5 hours on the phone with them, do you think I should drive an additional 2 hours + park at the airport? I feel skeptical because there is a modification ban on my booking reference now and its just taking up too much time, effort and energy in a losing battle.
Last edited by global happy traveller; Dec 31, 2008 at 8:28 am
Dec 31, 2008 | 9:42 am
#11
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Programs: OWEmerald; STARGold; BonvoyPlat; IHGPlat/Amb; HiltonGold; A|ClubPat; AirMilesPlat
Posts: 38,187
Does seem like the "expired" ticket is one of the causes of the problem. The added stopover on the new ticket just further complicates matters. If you do as GuyBetsy suggests and go to the airport, pick a very quiet, off-peak period so you don't tie up the ticketing position because this one will take hours and I'd hate to be standing behind you in line!
Dec 31, 2008 | 10:48 am
#12
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: PHL, NYC, DC
Posts: 9,739
you see this is getting complicated, primarily because of the inconsistent responses I get every call made and then it takes days for them to finalize the ticket.
two of the many staff i spoke to at reservations advised me that the expired credit could be bought forward for $52.50 (on top of $105 change fee). Since Dec 13, there are no more stopovers because they route me back via Nartia for a "lower intial Nov fare", but the fare never changed between Dec 10 and 29.
To put into perspective, I retrieved my credit card bills and these were my charges:
Sep 30 $958.32
Sep 30 $52.50
Dec 10 $759.62
Dec 10 $105.00
Dec 12 $52.50
Dec 11 $125.75 CR
I dont know if going to the airport would be any help, because they slap a modification ban (unless authorization is required) on my booking reference. At the end of the day, everything was done verbal and like the other posts, some of your responses, Customer care, Credit Card companies, Consumer Advocate Agencies and Lawyers can say there was no recollection of this conversation and I should disregard some of the promises made by Res staff.
Perhaps I should bite the bullet and choose another carrier next time. I even wonder now if they will give me a hard time using SSWU and put me under S.S (secondary inspection).... What do you people think?
two of the many staff i spoke to at reservations advised me that the expired credit could be bought forward for $52.50 (on top of $105 change fee). Since Dec 13, there are no more stopovers because they route me back via Nartia for a "lower intial Nov fare", but the fare never changed between Dec 10 and 29.
To put into perspective, I retrieved my credit card bills and these were my charges:
Sep 30 $958.32
Sep 30 $52.50
Dec 10 $759.62
Dec 10 $105.00
Dec 12 $52.50
Dec 11 $125.75 CR
I dont know if going to the airport would be any help, because they slap a modification ban (unless authorization is required) on my booking reference. At the end of the day, everything was done verbal and like the other posts, some of your responses, Customer care, Credit Card companies, Consumer Advocate Agencies and Lawyers can say there was no recollection of this conversation and I should disregard some of the promises made by Res staff.
Perhaps I should bite the bullet and choose another carrier next time. I even wonder now if they will give me a hard time using SSWU and put me under S.S (secondary inspection).... What do you people think?
Jan 1, 2009 | 9:14 am
#14
Join Date: May 2005
Programs: AC - SE, SPG - Platinum, HGP - Diamond
Posts: 369
Sounds like you've decided you are getting screwed and don't want to take the advice of the regulars on this forum. I've run into similar issues before, albeit with AE tickets, and going to the airport when they are quiet has always resolved the issues the call centers claim are unresolveable.
Go to the airport, give a BRIEF explanation of what you're trying to do and give them a chance to help you. Then decide whether you want to fly AC again or not.
Go to the airport, give a BRIEF explanation of what you're trying to do and give them a chance to help you. Then decide whether you want to fly AC again or not.
you see this is getting complicated, primarily because of the inconsistent responses I get every call made and then it takes days for them to finalize the ticket.
two of the many staff i spoke to at reservations advised me that the expired credit could be bought forward for $52.50 (on top of $105 change fee). Since Dec 13, there are no more stopovers because they route me back via Nartia for a "lower intial Nov fare", but the fare never changed between Dec 10 and 29.
To put into perspective, I retrieved my credit card bills and these were my charges:
Sep 30 $958.32
Sep 30 $52.50
Dec 10 $759.62
Dec 10 $105.00
Dec 12 $52.50
Dec 11 $125.75 CR
I dont know if going to the airport would be any help, because they slap a modification ban (unless authorization is required) on my booking reference. At the end of the day, everything was done verbal and like the other posts, some of your responses, Customer care, Credit Card companies, Consumer Advocate Agencies and Lawyers can say there was no recollection of this conversation and I should disregard some of the promises made by Res staff.
Perhaps I should bite the bullet and choose another carrier next time. I even wonder now if they will give me a hard time using SSWU and put me under S.S (secondary inspection).... What do you people think?
two of the many staff i spoke to at reservations advised me that the expired credit could be bought forward for $52.50 (on top of $105 change fee). Since Dec 13, there are no more stopovers because they route me back via Nartia for a "lower intial Nov fare", but the fare never changed between Dec 10 and 29.
To put into perspective, I retrieved my credit card bills and these were my charges:
Sep 30 $958.32
Sep 30 $52.50
Dec 10 $759.62
Dec 10 $105.00
Dec 12 $52.50
Dec 11 $125.75 CR
I dont know if going to the airport would be any help, because they slap a modification ban (unless authorization is required) on my booking reference. At the end of the day, everything was done verbal and like the other posts, some of your responses, Customer care, Credit Card companies, Consumer Advocate Agencies and Lawyers can say there was no recollection of this conversation and I should disregard some of the promises made by Res staff.
Perhaps I should bite the bullet and choose another carrier next time. I even wonder now if they will give me a hard time using SSWU and put me under S.S (secondary inspection).... What do you people think?
Jan 1, 2009 | 8:10 pm
#15
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: PHL, NYC, DC
Posts: 9,739
hello all.....
thanks for all your support and advice so far.
resgirl: my ticket was issued oct 2007. the return portion of YYZ -> YYJ was Nov 2007. However, I am getting conflicting advices from AC Res staff. Some say if I pay $52.50 (charged on Dec 12) i can forward the expired credit and use it for the SIN trip, some say its expired, some say the fact i bought the IAD trip in Sep 2008 allowed me to carry full amount for another year.
wolvie007: yeah, i feel like being screwed already because AC Res staff and their supervisor told me on phone that they placed a ban on my reservation, preventing me to ask anymore questions and make any form of modifications to my booking whatsoever. Without this ban i would heed the advice of regulars and go to the airport, but with this ban, i am skeptical what difference can airport ticketing staff really make?
Anyone ran into a ban situation like me before and really had their case resolved at the airport?
Please advise!
Thanks.
thanks for all your support and advice so far.
resgirl: my ticket was issued oct 2007. the return portion of YYZ -> YYJ was Nov 2007. However, I am getting conflicting advices from AC Res staff. Some say if I pay $52.50 (charged on Dec 12) i can forward the expired credit and use it for the SIN trip, some say its expired, some say the fact i bought the IAD trip in Sep 2008 allowed me to carry full amount for another year.
wolvie007: yeah, i feel like being screwed already because AC Res staff and their supervisor told me on phone that they placed a ban on my reservation, preventing me to ask anymore questions and make any form of modifications to my booking whatsoever. Without this ban i would heed the advice of regulars and go to the airport, but with this ban, i am skeptical what difference can airport ticketing staff really make?
Anyone ran into a ban situation like me before and really had their case resolved at the airport?
Please advise!
Thanks.