Questions about International Premium Cabins
 

Hello!

In the past year, I've switched over from flying other airlines to mostly AA due to change of locations I need to get to. I have not taken an international AA flight in about 15-20 years, and I was a young teenager at that time so I am guessing a lot has changed. Obviously the international landscape has changed a lot with the last leg being flown as codeshares where as I remember as a kid, we could get a ton of places across the world on AA and Northwest (and later Delta) metal.

I do travel a lot (Platinum Status, which I'm not sure I benefit from a lot) so my questions are mostly aimed at understanding the premium international classes. Please correct my misunderstandings and help guide my confusion as below:

1) Premium Economy seems to be a domestic first class seat that is stuck in a wide body--some upgraded food options and a comfy chair with pillow and blanket.
2) Flagship Business / First are essentially the same product with different names? I'm looking at a 772 flight from DFW to NRT which seems to be a 2-class airplane--Premium Economy seems to be a part of the main cabin, but the Premium Economy is what the old "business class" was on a plane with 3-class international service 15-ish years ago was?
3) What the heck is the difference between Flagship Business and International Business? If I book a flight from my Origin airport through DFW, get on AA 61 to NRT, and end there. It shows my option in the top-tier cabin as Flagship Business. Same flight from Origin-->DFW-->NRT-->TPE with the last segment on Japan Air metal, and now that same seat on the same AA61 flight is just regular Business. Looks like same onboard amenities (which makes sense given that it's the same physical space), but the difference is that Flagship Business passengers can access the Flagship Business lounge in DFW and the Admirals Club at the origin airport, whereas international First can only access Admiral Club at DFW and have no access at Origin airport? Guessing it's a "penalty" for not flying AA metal the whole way, but in exchanges, I'm guessing you get access to the Japan Airlines Lounges at NRT before the NRT-->TPE Flight
4) I'm reading conflicting reports on how to upgrade to Business/Flagship Business with points. On the website, it says 25,000 points plus $350. However, I'm reading that paying that amount only gets you on the list (there are no free upgrades for status members on international legs, but there are for the domestic legs). If that's the case, is it worth almost $650 in points and cash to just "get on the list?" Guessing it doesn't upgrade my JAL segment either?
5) If I'm traveling with a partner, and we want to sit together in Flagship Business, do we want seats A and D so that way we could get up during the flight and talk to each other? Or do we want D and H and there is someway to see each other or talk through the "wall" between the seats?

Thanks in advance!

1) Yes, plus a legrest.

2) While it's around, Flagship First is in theory a better hard and soft product than Flagship Business, but it is only available on the 77W and A321T. The 772 has Flagship Business, Premium Economy, and Main Cabin. Not sure why you're seeing only two cabins. I'd say Premium Economy is still materially worse than business class 15 years ago. The latter was angled flat seats (on AA at least), whereas the former is, as you say, a slightly better domestic first class seat (still worse than the previous generation of business class recliners from the 1990s and 2000s, which had at least 10-15 inches more pitch than Premium Economy today).

3) No difference on AA metal, I'd venture it's just a display glitch. Any itinerary with DFW-NRT in the front cabin will grant you access to Flagship Lounges and Admirals Clubs at any airport along the way, as well as the JAL business lounge at NRT if connecting onwards.

4) I think it's worth it, but be prepared to not clear. It will not cover the JAL segment.

5) D and H for a couple.

- in my opinion premium economy is not as nice as domestic first. the armrests are built so that you have less room to manspread, and this is uncomfortable on long flights.
- there is little difference between flagship first and business. the bedding is different, i happen to like what they offer in business. the FA is much more attentive in first, but I'm pretty low maintenance. the seat offers a bit more space (inches, not a meaningful amount) in first, nothing major. if you are flying with your partner in flagship first two people can dine in the same seat (facing one another) but its pretty cramped.
- its been a few years since i did an upgrade now, but AFIK there are instantly confirmable points / cash upgrades just like there are with SWUs so that gets you 100%, but even if you just get waitlisted, why wouldn't it be worth it? the cost of the upgrade is worth the price from coach, and if you dont clear the upgrade it doesnt cost you. So if you only objection is being waitlisted, i wouldnt worry about it.

There are free international upgrades for status members, but only on short-haul around North America (Canada, Mexico, Caribbean).

The miles + co-pay price is the price for the upgrade, and will only be deducted if you actually get the upgrade. But yes, it is entirely possible that you will be wait-listed if instantly confirmable space isn't available. Do I think $600-ish worth of value is worth it to bump up from economy to a lie-flat bed on a 13-hour flight from Dallas to Tokyo? Absolutely.

It's pretty similar to a domestic first class seat and service. The seat and the armrest are both slightly narrower than domestic F, but there's still reasonable separation. As mentioned, there is a legrest, but only in bulkhead rows; other rows have a footrest that comes down from the back of the seat in front.
Flagship Business and Flagship First are different. We could argue over how different, but Flagship First gets you probably 30% more personal space, slightly elevated catering options, and more personalized attention. The first thing is really what you're paying for, but many people find the business class seats fine and don't see the value of First. That's part of the reason why AA will soon be removing it. First also has better lounge options, whether Flagship First dining in DFW or Chelsea lounge in JFK. Flagship First is only available on the 77W (777-300ER), for international, and the A321T for transcon (e.g., JFK-LAX/SFO).
No, the 772s are all 3-class - Business, Premium Economy, Main Cabin. That said, I think AA considers PE as part of Main Cabin for upgrade purposes - i.e., there's no benefit of booking PE in terms of cost/likelihood of upgrade to business, and AA does not offer the ability to upgrade with miles from Main Cabin to PE. I think you have to go back quite a bit further than 15 years before today's PE was similar to history's business class, and of course today's business class seat is better than first class was back then.

Just a display glitch, do not read anything else into that. I believe the Flagship branding only shows up on the search results page for all-AA itineraries.
The 25k+$350 is the cost of the upgrade. However they are capacity-controlled, so often the only practical way of upgrading is to waitlist for it, and then AA will clear the waitlist over time (often not until a few days before departure), but your priority on the waitlist is a function of your status (among other factors). No upgrades on JL flights, the only partners that offer AA mileage upgrades are BA, IB, and QF. https://www.aa.com/web/i18n/aadvanta.../upgrades.html (scroll down). Note that on some routes with lots of business class capacity, namely JFK-LHR, there is often plenty of confirmable upgrade space a couple of weeks before departure.
It depends somewhat on the configuration - there are two different 772 seating configurations in J. In the all-forward facing, you should be able to talk to each other in the center D/H pairs, maybe needing to lean forward a bit. On the forward-rear configurations there are options where you can face each other somewhat that might be better. aerolopa.com has good, accurate, schematics of the seating arrangements. Personally, I prefer a window, so my companion will usually just take the seat in front of or behind me.

On points 3 and 4:
3.) You're not paying to get on the list. You're committing 25K points + $350 *IF* the spot opens up for you. They won't charge you until/unless it does, so make sure the card you give them has the credit/funds to pay for it.
4.) You won't know the seat layout until a day or two before the flight, and even then it could change up to the last minute. Ideally for comfort you want the all forward facing seats. If you want to be able to talk to your travel companion, it won't happen easily if one is at the window and the other across the aisle so book 2 in the center section next to each other.

Platinum status grants you access to the Flagship Lounges when traveling in any class of service on long-haul international flights and to the Admirals Club when flying in any class of service on short-haul international flights (e.g., Canada, Mexico, Central America and northern South America).

Wine was exactly the same in Flagship first as Flagship Business on the 77W LAX-LHR.

A slight clarification. In years past I would use miles to get a confirmed upgrade. When the seats are released ~10 months before the flight date, there are a few Business Class seats in the upgrade bucket. If memory serves me, there are usually 2 such seats in the original allotment. My mission was to grab one of those two seats right after seats were released for that flight. My flight was always LAX-LHR-DUS-LHR-LAX at the same time of the year for an annual trade show.

1. Use Expert Flyer to identify flights (to and from) with a business class upgrade available that suit my travel needs.

2. Reserve a cheap coach ticket on those exact flights. Do not pay; put the reservation on hold.

3. Phone the Plat line and refer to the PNR of my on-hold reservation. Tell the agent I want to upgrade and will purchase the entire ticket (coach fare plus co-pay) if there is a confirmable upgrade available. NOTE: I already know there is a confirmable upgrade available having just checked Expert Flyer seconds ago.

4. Listen for the surprise in the voice of the reservation agent when they say there actually is a confirmed upgrade seat available. Tell the agent I want to book the ticket immediately, paying the coach fare and the upgrade co-pay right now on my credit card. Eureka!

5. Now wait 10 months for my confirmed upgrade Business Class flight to Europe.

This worked just great until 2018. That year was a Year of Drama in my work life and personal life. All kinds of stuff happened, including a fire evacuation at my office, two key employees leaving suddenly without notice, and a death. It was very disruptive and traumatic to evacuate the office for FIVE WHOLE DAYS in 2018. Little did we know what awaited in 2020.

So, post-2018 my boss agreed to just pay the Business Class fare outright and now I just get the ticket a few months ahead of flight time.

My point here is that getting a confirmed upgrade with miles and co-pays is possible long in advance. You don't have to play the Upgrade Roulette if you are willing to plan way ahead.

Having said all that, let me suggest my personal fav seat in the 77W Business Class. This is the configuration with 2 rows of First, 2 rows of Business, then the galley and passenger pass-through. Next are the rest of the Business Class seats and Economy. The 2 rows of Business Class right behind the First 2 rows is best. This is called the "Mini-Cabin".

Why?

Those two rows are all bulkhead rows, with a nice shelf to put your pillow and blanket. That shelf is either behind your head (row 4) or in front of you (row 3). The other BC seats behind the passenger pass-through are mostly non-bulkhead and do not have this handy shelf.

The mini-cabin can be quieter than BC further back. You have fewer people within earshot and less chance of a yakky conversation going on all night about relatives' ailments, illnesses and operations. ("You should have seen the disgusting rash on my neighbor's foot")

When the flight arrives at the destination, FC passengers are allowed to get off first. The flight attendants block the passengers from row 5 - on. The FC people have to walk through the BC mini-cabin to deplane, thus BC mini-cabin is the first to deplane. I have been #1 to walk off the plane lots of times.

The lav behind 4J is an ACAA compliant lav. (ACAA is the ADA of the skies.) This lav has room for a disabled person plus a helper. In other words, it is the Holy Grail of airplane lavs. Instead of a cramped little space, you have enough room to turn around comfortably and adjust your clothing. It is not reserved only for disabled passengers. Any BC passenger can use it.

Can you guess that I always go for seat 4J?

I'm not quite sure that this is still possible in the modern era, at least on a regular basis. For example, seats are available on May 16, 2025, for flights across the Atlantic. (330 days out, which I guess is what you meant by "~10 months"?). But there is no available C class inventory for confirmable upgrades from, for example, JFK to anywhere in Europe on May 16. So unless something special happens at 10 months, as opposed to 330 days, I am afraid that things have dried up a bit since 2018, in terms of C inventory on the day seats become available. So it might sometimes be possible, but my impression is that a game of roulette or a lot of flexibility is very much necessary at this point.

Please correct me if I am missing some key element of your strategy, as I would love to get guaranteed upgrades as much as the next person and I am totally willing to plan ~10 months or 330 days ahead.

If what you say is true, then, yes, my 10-months ahead of flight hack is not longer working. If there are no C buckets available on the day seats are first released, then indeed you will be relegated to Upgrade Roulette near flight time. Because my work and personal life changed radically in 2018, I haven't tried this strategy since then, and certainly not since I started to fly again after 2020.

It might be worth setting an alert in Expert Flyer so you get a notification if a C seat is released, then try to nab it.

Thank you for the correction.

ETA: I meant 330 days, but could not remember the exact number. That's why I wrote ~10 months. At the time I was doing this, I got on line right on the very day the seats were released. I was watching it closely in those days.

These days are long gone in my experience.

Interesting. Do you know when this changed? I thought that, for main cabin, Platinum and above granted access to AC only (never access to FL). I also thought that short haul international (except for MEX) did not grant access to AC based on status for any cabin.

I have no idea when it changed, however, these benefits have been in place for at least a year.You also earn a 60% mileage bonus per dollar spent, two free checked bags, group 3 boarding and access to oneworld business class lounges when travelling internationally.

Platinum and up have had access to FLs on longhaul routes since inception of the FL. The only change was MEX and northern South America (Bolivia, Colombia, Ecuador, Guyana, Peru, Suriname, Venezuela) used to have FL access and now do not across class of service and status.