In-App "Upgrade for Cash" offer makes a mockery of loyalty + miles
Jul 13, 2024, 10:15 am
#17
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2005
Programs: AA-EXP, LATAM Gold+, BA-Blues
Posts: 727
However - as lrdpenn points out, the entire conceit of loyalty programs is to drive return business, by encouraging marginal purchases by individual travelers with the company.
Insofar as AA/Oneworld is the airline/alliance with which I've been flying the most for 20+ years, the preference I give to those airlines for my travel spend is rewarded in somewhat predictable ways, due to the nature of the commercial relationship (elite status, in this case).
When the reward for that preference is no longer predictable (for example, when the expectation of an orderly SWU allocation process is bypassed by in-app offers for the airline to grab a bit of quick cash), that's what I meant by the title of this thread: making a mockery of loyalty.
I don't expect or imagine that my individual custom makes any difference at all to AA. But the disdain their approach here shows for customer loyalty is, as I've said, gross.
And "gross" is the new "Something Special in the Air"
We can acknowledge it, but we don't have to like it.
Jul 13, 2024, 10:18 am
#18
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Boston, MA
Programs: AA 1MM CK, DL Plat, Hilton Diamond, Bonvoy Ambassador (RIP SPG), BAEC Gold
Posts: 1,427
When the buy-ups are this low, it can be an interesting case of how the left and right hand don't talk. I wonder what AA's internal liability per mile is on their balance sheet. I have to imagine this $0.001 is getting close, if not below the value. Isn't it financially advantageous, then, for AA to clear the upgrade in these cases? One could create complex inventory arguments, but I would say the AAdvantage team could create a script to "purchase" the buy-up from the buy-up team when it makes sense and turn a small internal accounting profit. Same argument for SWUs. I'd guess internally SWUs are valued at roughly equivalent to the highest miles+points value. There should probably be some type of short circuit on C availability for these cases.
Cash is king and I’m sure AA management would take positive cash flow any day of the week over releasing a current liability (in the case of a SWU, which could release without any hit to income). In this case, the $377 offer. We don’t have details on when this flight is happening, but the low offer means they’re foregoing selling that seat for $2-4k.
The debits / credits of all of this are interesting (at least for me), but going into that would certainly take this off topic!
Jul 13, 2024, 10:22 am
#19
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: PHL
Programs: AA EXP
Posts: 822
Not anymore, not with AA. Once AA started rewarding CC spend the same as BIS, the loyalty program as you desire it went away. AAdvantage’s purpose is not to to drive marginal purchases by travelers, but to drive CC spend so that Citi and Barclays buy even more miles.
Jul 13, 2024, 10:35 am
#20
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: BHM
Programs: AA Executive Platinum
Posts: 73
I know I should probably buy a lottery ticket after what I'm about to say, but it's a data point that there's still some utility in SWUs. Myself and one companion were booked in PE on a flight to Europe in mid October. There were 2 seats left in J, on a 787-8, which the app was offering cash upgrades to for $4500 each. Seeing little hope, I went ahead and called last week and got wait-listed for SWUs, figuring it was a long shot. Two days later, AA cleared us into the last 2 seats in J! While I can't wrap my head around the logic behind this, I'm nonetheless thankful. It seems that releasing C inventory has little to do with how full J actually is, even 3 months out.
Jul 13, 2024, 10:45 am
#21
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Boston, MA
Programs: AA 1MM CK, DL Plat, Hilton Diamond, Bonvoy Ambassador (RIP SPG), BAEC Gold
Posts: 1,427
I know I should probably buy a lottery ticket after what I'm about to say, but it's a data point that there's still some utility in SWUs. Myself and one companion were booked in PE on a flight to Europe in mid October. There were 2 seats left in J, on a 787-8, which the app was offering cash upgrades to for $4500 each. Seeing little hope, I went ahead and called last week and got wait-listed for SWUs, figuring it was a long shot. Two days later, AA cleared us into the last 2 seats in J! While I can't wrap my head around the logic behind this, I'm nonetheless thankful. It seems that releasing C inventory has little to do with how full J actually is, even 3 months out.
Also, I’d hazard a guess that at some level these are all disparate systems / processes.
Jul 13, 2024, 10:52 am
#22
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: BHM
Programs: AA Executive Platinum
Posts: 73
That is solid, and a good use of a SWU. If you remember, what was the fare difference because sometimes the app upgrade price is out of sync with the fare difference. I’m surprised they’d let the last two seats go now for a flight in October, unless it was a glitch.
Also, I’d hazard a guess that at some level these are all disparate systems / processes.
Also, I’d hazard a guess that at some level these are all disparate systems / processes.
Jul 13, 2024, 1:29 pm
#23
Join Date: Feb 2014
Programs: Accor Silver
Posts: 30
Last edited by binarycanary; Jul 13, 2024 at 1:46 pm
Jul 13, 2024, 6:13 pm
#25
Join Date: Apr 2017
Programs: Bonvoy ambassador - lifetime plat / Hilton diamond / hyatt globalist / AA CK baby!
Posts: 1,238
i dont get it. you are offered a dirt cheap upgrade on a modestly long international trip and you...... complain? i dont care about your pending SWU. thats straight up looking a gift horse in the mouth. take the paid upgrade and use the SWU on a flight that would be much more expensive to sit in the pointy section.
Jul 14, 2024, 4:38 am
#26
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: DEN
Programs: AA EXP, AA Million Miles, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 2,650
I love these cheap J upgrades offers on long hauls. I fly way more long hauls than I have SWUs for, so these just give me another way to upgrade cheaply.
And there's far more to EXP status than upgrades....
And there's far more to EXP status than upgrades....
Jul 14, 2024, 8:54 am
#27
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: MIA
Programs: AA EXP 3.8MM AC; UA Silver; Hyatt Globalist; Honors Diamond; Bonvoy LT TTM
Posts: 343
I remember 14-15 years ago when I was PLT, if i would use stickers to waitlist for upgrades, I'd almost always get it, as every elite on the flight wasn't competing with me for complimentary upgrades. It seems we're seeing ~$140-$280 upgrade offers being offered to everyone on 2-3 hour flights that would have cost 2-3 stickers $40 stickers back in the day. At this point, I wish they'd reinstate the sticker model, so upgrades would return to being restricted to elites (not offer to everyone on the flight), and consider pricing them based on status, so GLD's would pay more for stickers, and EXP the least. This keeps some value for our loyalty and allows AA to monetize upgrades.
Jul 14, 2024, 8:04 pm
#29
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 1,192
A similar point was just made in a VFTW article today:
Sells upgrades cheap.. too cheap? American Airlines has a good international business seat, and considering how bad the food is on Delta and United theirs is more than serviceable. It’s also very accessible, since they sell upgrades online very aggressively. But they frequently sell upgrades for less than the cash co-pay on a mileage upgrade award while not making mileage upgrade award seats available. That’s bad for the mileage program, and even for short-term revenue!
Jul 14, 2024, 9:19 pm
#30
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: DEN
Programs: AA EXP, AA Million Miles, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 2,650
A similar point was just made in a VFTW article today: