ND76

I am doing MTR-SDY (Schenectady) on September 14, as part of my trip from St. John's, Newfoundland to Cleveland via surface transportation. After a couple of days on Prince Edward Island, I am taking a bus to Amherst, Nova Scotia, then boarding the Halifax-Montreal "Ocean" overnight train to Montreal, with a scheduled 1.5 hour layover to connect to the Adirondack. At SDY, I have a scheduled 56 minute layover to connect to the westbound Lake Shore Limited.

zephyr17

I responded with my estimate of the odds of the Adirondack resuming service (fairly low) to your other post.

Here, I was struck by the 56 minute connection at SDY. That is below the 60 minute guideline Amtrak uses for their connection guarantee. However, there are several exceptions to that guideline, both shorter and longer, and Amtrak sets or drops the guarantee on each connection individually, so I checked it.

That is not a guaranteed connection. As such, if the Adirondack misses it, you will not be provided with guarantee benefits, like a hotel room and automatic rebooking on the next day's train. You'd just be considered a no-show on the Lake Shore and might well forfeit your fare. The very real Adirondack suspension issues aside, it is a risky move. Even before COVID, the Adirondack's on time performance was not great.

ND76

I bought separate tickets on the MTR-SDY and SDY-CLE segments. The tickets cost a total of $80, so I don't have all that much at risk. The big variable in all of this is whether the "Ocean" arrives in Montreal at any time near scheduled arrival time of 0953. If I miss the Adirondack (assuming it is running that day), the next VIA service direct to Toronto leaves at 1323 and arrives there at 1833. I have a Presto card for the GO commuter rail service, so I can try to make the 1843 departure for Burlington, which connects to a bus for Niagara Falls; this would let me make the 0039 Lake Shore Limited departure from Depew/Buffalo. Then again, I just might overnight in Montreal, which is definitely not the worst place in the world to get stuck overnight.

The alternative is to catch one of the four daily Greyhound services that go from Montreal to NYC via Albany. The departure closrest to the arrival of the Ocean is 1115, the same time as the scheduled departure for the Adirondack. Sadly, the bus station in Montreal is not located close to Gare Central, but is at least one mile away on Rue Berri. The Montreal Metro line that serves the bus station looks like a 15 minute walk from the train station, so a taxi is probably required. I think I would rather take the train to Toronto, as that part of the "Corridor" is the fastest train line in Canada (338 miles in 5 hours 10 minutes).

username

Any inside news on what Amtrak's plan this summer is? It seems the trains are still available to be booked - even in the middle of July. Wouldn't the high temperature be a problem again?

Thanks.

zephyr17

I do not know whether discussions with CN on improving the maintenance level of the Rouses Point Subdivision in Canada have borne fruit. Getting CN to agree to higher maintenance is critical to avoiding the drastic, 10 mph speed restrictions there that are imposed when temps are expected to exceed 30° C/86° F. CN, BTW, is perfectly happy with a 10 mph speed restriction on a lightly used branch line and does not need a higher maintenance level for its own purposes.

I would not trust the booking engine, it historically has been the last thing to get updated.

Since I don't know of any announcements about an agreement (but I don't live in the area, so might not know), I would assume that the Adirondack is going to get cancelled again as the weather warms up. I'd just wait and see if cancellations start up again once it actually warms up. If it gets to around 90° without it being cancelled, then it's good and they straightened it out. That's not where I'd put my money, though.

username

Thanks. It is just strange that they are acting as if last year didn't happen. I wonder what they did to re-accommodate the passengers last year.

I wonder if they can adjust the schedule a little so it runs that portion earlier in the day southbound and later in the day northbound. That might affect crew scheduling though - maybe they only want the crew to overnight 1 night instead of 2 if the break is not long enough...

zephyr17

Crew hours were the ultimate cause behind the cancellations, IIRC. The current schedule allows approximately 2 hours for the 49 miles between Gare Central and Rouses Point.

There is almost 15 hours between scheduled arrival and departure. Subtract an hour for on-duty time and you have a scheduled rest period of nearly 14 hours. At 10 mph for much of distance between Rouses Point and Montreal, the running time would be about 5 hours. So there would still be 9 hours rest, with 8 hours the legal minimum. However, the crews come on duty at Albany. The current running time between Albany and Montreal is approximately 8 1/2 hours. Add 3 hours and you get 11 1/2, perilously close to the 12 hour absolute limit on Hours of Service. Add an hour for reporting time and you are over and the crew will die on the law somewhere between Rouses Point and Montreal.

Adding an additional layover night wouldn't help. You'd have to add another crew change in upstate New York.

PS, IIRC, Amtrak pretty much just cancelled it with no alternative transportation. They issued a full refund and passengers were on their own.

This is a great way to kill a service. Make it wholly unreliable during peak travel season and don't take care of the displaced passengers. The current situation is unsustainable. Someone ultimately have to pony up money to CN to improve maintenance on the Rouses Point Sub, likely New York State which funds the service, or switch the host back to CP (they use their line to Rouses Point much more and it is maintained to a higher level) and run it to Montreal's Gare Lucien L'Allier. That's assuming CP and EXO would go along.

username

I remember reading somewhere that eventually they want to add a US Customs and Immigration facility at Gare Centrale to make the service more attractive. However, I don't know where they will find the space and supposedly Gare Centrale is also historical so it can't be modified much. It probably also does not make financial sense with 1 train a day.

Lucien L'Allier is barely acceptable for the very limited regional services now and I wonder how Amtrak would be supported in the unlikely event they shift there - the "lobby" is tiny, the tracks are outdoors, etc.

zephyr17

It's between a rock and a hard place. Find a way for NY to fund higher maintenance, not just outside the state but in another country entirely, and stay in Gare Central? Switch to a well maintained railroad at the cost of terminating at a very bare bones commuter station (Lucian L'Allier)? Let the service die because it's not dependable?

There is no easy answer here. I think most supporters of the Adirondack root for "A" but fear the ultimate answer will be "C". I do think the only reason it came back at all was due political pressure from places like Plattsburgh. Rouses Point and Ticonderoga, even though they don't generate enough ridership to support the service without through traffic to Montreal.

Adding a unified CBSA/CBP Preclearance facility to Gare Central is a precondition for those agencies to support a resumption a Montrealer route from Vermont. They will not support another train requiring onboard inspections (the Adirondack was kind of grandfathered). There were plans drawn up for such a facility, but I understand EXO and the province are now uninterested in it.

username

I guess this is the fate of rail services in North America It is hard enough improving our own rail system in the US... Maybe this will change in the distant future...

schriste

Is the last mile or 2 of track just before you hit the border going southbound CP track? I rode the Adirondak in early April and it sped up considerably for that last little bit.

zephyr17

The junction between the CN Rouses Point Sub and the CP (ex D&H) Canadian Sub is just around a curve north of the Rouses Point station, less than a quarter mile. The junction is on the US side of the border, barely.

jeroen100

I was booked on the Adirondack June 7. Yesterday I got an email that the train will now terminate at Saratoga Springs. Through Twitter DM I learned this was due to track maintenance and no alternative transportation will be provided to Montreal.

Does Amtrak have a duty of care, same as airlines? I could book a greyhound for the last part of the journey.

zephyr17

I just saw this morning that Amtrak announced it will suspend service on the Adirondack north of Saratoga Springs from May 20th through June 30th. No reason given, but my bet is on potential temperatures over 86° F/30° C and CN 10 mph speed restrictions again. And my prediction is that it'll be rolling, sometime in June they'll suspend service July 1 to some future date.

Amtrak has the same duty of care as the airlines. They can cancel a flight and just provide a full refund, too. Though they often provide alternative transportation ("bustitution") they frequently don't for longer term suspensions, like this.

snic

The suspension of service between Saratoga Springs and Montreal is now expected to last through September.

https://www.trains.com/trn/news-revi...nto-september/