(RANT) Do people at BA Call Centres have any common sense??
Jun 30, 2017, 1:47 am
#46
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Sin, HKG
Programs: SQ, BA CCR GGL
Posts: 626
We do appear to be making a mountain out of a molehill here. I've certainly made a fair number of these seat assignments for passengers on other bookings in the past and never had a problem. I suspect this was very much a one of issue with an agent for some reason (which happens). It's unfortunate but it's hardly a systemic failing of BA or their staff...
Jun 30, 2017, 1:54 am
#47
Join Date: Mar 2017
Programs: BAEC GGL
Posts: 261
I contend that those making a mountain are those who suggest it did not transpire, or that the agent was fully correct in all respects or the OP's tone was wrong ...ad infinitum. I do not also recall that any poster suggested this was a systemic failing either. At face value this was bad service from a single agent. Period.
I have sympathy as I know this request to be possible and usually easy to achieve in my experience but there are security and privacy requirements to be met here as well. Without hearing from the agent why they felt they couldn't proceed it's really impossible to judge.
Failing that, some actual knowledge of what BA policy is for such changes would be useful, otherwise I think the advice given has been fairly sound in between the assigning blame.
Jun 30, 2017, 5:51 am
#48
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2005
Programs: Eurostar Carte Blanche, SBB-CFF-FFS GA-AG, SNCF Grand Voyageur LeClub
Posts: 7,907
Thanks for all the replies. Maybe to do a summary reply from my side:
BA just sent me the survey of my call centre experience, as input into their NPS. I answered truthfully that the agent was competent, listened, was welcoming, but that my issue is not resolved and that I was extremely dissatisfied with the way the call went. Surely this is an outlyer data point (towards the bottom) and I don't expect BA to follow up with me despite me offering it
- To those that reminded me of the rules: I understand why they exist and I am fine with them (and in my inferior country I have seen worse). Nothing wrong with that. It's the way that they were applied in this specific case that I struggled with
- To those that complain about my tone and aggressiveness, but then lecture me on "you should have thought of that before", "clearly you don't take data privacy seriously because you're not from the UK", "this was the wrong channel", "you probably are just a miles user and don't spend enough money on BA" - I just shrug my shoulders, I guess it's normal to attack the messenger when running out of arguments, because the arguments brought forward all didn't hold up or missed the point
BA just sent me the survey of my call centre experience, as input into their NPS. I answered truthfully that the agent was competent, listened, was welcoming, but that my issue is not resolved and that I was extremely dissatisfied with the way the call went. Surely this is an outlyer data point (towards the bottom) and I don't expect BA to follow up with me despite me offering it
Jun 30, 2017, 9:23 am
#49
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Providence RI
Programs: American Exec Plat, Hyatt Refugeeist, Marriot Gold, Air Canada Cattle Class, Korean Air Morning Plat
Posts: 988
As for never booking full fare.........no I don't remember ever having done that. Of course if you book nothing but 'full fare economy' or 'full fare Club World', I can probably show you a few websites that you may be able to reduce some of your out of pocket costs, you know, I'm here to help.
Jun 30, 2017, 10:46 am
#50
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Edinburgh
Programs: BA Silver, Amex Platinum
Posts: 149
It's the fees they charge that get me...or the lack of transparency thereof. I just phoned BA today to change the domestic leg of an international avios redemption in F with a 241. BA website wouldn't let me do it online which as a complicated redemption was fair enough. I expected to pay the change fee of £35 per person but was then stung for £15pp service fee. Now perhaps I should have known about the service fee...but can't see where it's referred to anywhere. Contact centre staff was very pleasant and helpful though and the whole thing just took 5 mins.
Jun 30, 2017, 11:17 am
#51
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,686
I honestly think that BA call centre folks are either
1/ old One2One phone centre dopes who probably still used a GPS to find their way to work after 10 years on the job at the same location
or
2/ they are absolutely un-empowered to do anything but read from the script.
When in doubt..........they say no. It is a culture of non-ownership, fueled by call-centre metrics. They just want to get us off the line in 6 minutes and 35 seconds as that is an "average call length".
I do know for a fact. An absolute FACT, that their call centre bosses have to review 5-6 calls a month for each associate. This takes time. The bosses only pull and score the calls that are between 3-4 minutes to cut down on listening to long calls and making their day longer. If you can tee it up for them and get your problem explained and solved in that time, then you are golden. They will try to get in this window and solve the problem quickly for you to say THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
1/ old One2One phone centre dopes who probably still used a GPS to find their way to work after 10 years on the job at the same location
or
2/ they are absolutely un-empowered to do anything but read from the script.
When in doubt..........they say no. It is a culture of non-ownership, fueled by call-centre metrics. They just want to get us off the line in 6 minutes and 35 seconds as that is an "average call length".
I do know for a fact. An absolute FACT, that their call centre bosses have to review 5-6 calls a month for each associate. This takes time. The bosses only pull and score the calls that are between 3-4 minutes to cut down on listening to long calls and making their day longer. If you can tee it up for them and get your problem explained and solved in that time, then you are golden. They will try to get in this window and solve the problem quickly for you to say THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
Yes calls are reviewed and this includes things like data protection so if the agent broke it they would face consequences.
Jun 30, 2017, 12:24 pm
#52
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Providence RI
Programs: American Exec Plat, Hyatt Refugeeist, Marriot Gold, Air Canada Cattle Class, Korean Air Morning Plat
Posts: 988
Just to confirm, I was talking about average talk time for the rep as a call centre metric, not every single call needs to be completed in 6 mins.
My point is agents are marked on a number of things. Customer satisfaction as an agent, customer satisfaction as a team, call centre metrics and call reviews. If you want a good interaction, if you can articulate the problem quickly and they can solve it in a time frame that call will help get you to "yes". The agent knows the call lengths the managers usually pull and they want positive scores.
My point is agents are marked on a number of things. Customer satisfaction as an agent, customer satisfaction as a team, call centre metrics and call reviews. If you want a good interaction, if you can articulate the problem quickly and they can solve it in a time frame that call will help get you to "yes". The agent knows the call lengths the managers usually pull and they want positive scores.
Jun 30, 2017, 4:38 pm
#53
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: DUB/ORD/SIN/PVG
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Posts: 2,924
I am with the agent on this one. A hesitation to provide the booking reference when requested would lead me to ask further security questions and if I was still in doubt, I would simply not proceed with the call. In fact, I never used to entertain the idea of conference calls as it was a breach of security and booking integrity. Do you think your bank or credit card company would accept a conference call where your personal details were being discussed? If you answer yes, then you need to review your personal protection approach. I take it that you aren't based in the UK, purely from the way you brush aside the risks of data protection breaches.
Just because someone works in a call centre doesn't give you the right to look down on them. If you follow the right process and channels, you will get assistance with what you are after. You will be making their job easier and they will be more than willing to go above and beyond. I no longer work for BA but I have had the pleasure of working with some of the best phone agents in the Newcastle and Manchester teams. The high number of Golden Tickets and Well Done letters attest to this.
Just because someone works in a call centre doesn't give you the right to look down on them. If you follow the right process and channels, you will get assistance with what you are after. You will be making their job easier and they will be more than willing to go above and beyond. I no longer work for BA but I have had the pleasure of working with some of the best phone agents in the Newcastle and Manchester teams. The high number of Golden Tickets and Well Done letters attest to this.
Agree with you re NCL and MAN average service levels however. ^
Jul 1, 2017, 5:24 am
#54
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,686
Just to confirm, I was talking about average talk time for the rep as a call centre metric, not every single call needs to be completed in 6 mins.
My point is agents are marked on a number of things. Customer satisfaction as an agent, customer satisfaction as a team, call centre metrics and call reviews. If you want a good interaction, if you can articulate the problem quickly and they can solve it in a time frame that call will help get you to "yes". The agent knows the call lengths the managers usually pull and they want positive scores.
My point is agents are marked on a number of things. Customer satisfaction as an agent, customer satisfaction as a team, call centre metrics and call reviews. If you want a good interaction, if you can articulate the problem quickly and they can solve it in a time frame that call will help get you to "yes". The agent knows the call lengths the managers usually pull and they want positive scores.
Last edited by Anonba; Jul 1, 2017 at 5:32 am
Jul 1, 2017, 6:21 am
#55
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2005
Programs: Eurostar Carte Blanche, SBB-CFF-FFS GA-AG, SNCF Grand Voyageur LeClub
Posts: 7,907
I confirm that the agent I talked to was always courteous and I did not have the impression that he tried to hurry through the call. Not an issue.
The issue that he refused priceeding with the call despite us following his exact instructions, caused by a lack of basic common sense.
The issue that he refused priceeding with the call despite us following his exact instructions, caused by a lack of basic common sense.
Jul 1, 2017, 9:58 am
#56
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 355
Highly unlikely. You have to tell these people things very slowly, repeat yourself and try not to get frustrated. Ideally you phone these people when you're in a good mood, have plenty of time, and where the information transfer is minimal. Anything else, prepare to be disappointed.
The competence is such that the HUACA practice is well known and often advocated. How often do 'specialists' turn out just to be 'special' people rather than helpful. Fine by me, but keep them away.
The competence is such that the HUACA practice is well known and often advocated. How often do 'specialists' turn out just to be 'special' people rather than helpful. Fine by me, but keep them away.
Jul 1, 2017, 9:59 am
#57
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 355
I forgot to say that companies increasingly don't pay their staff to think and often would prefer them not to. So it isn't always the staff being incompetent, they are in many cases following guidelines drawn up by incompetent people more senior in the organisation.
Jul 1, 2017, 11:29 am
#59
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2005
Programs: Eurostar Carte Blanche, SBB-CFF-FFS GA-AG, SNCF Grand Voyageur LeClub
Posts: 7,907
I maintain that there is a complete absence of common sense at BA call centres. Summary of a looong, very courteous but ultimately frustrating conversation where I wanted to change a ticket:
Fare of old ticket: GBP 586
Fare of new ticket: GBP 676
Change in taxes: GBP 5.60
Change fee: GBP 70
In my book that would leave me with GBP 165 to pay.
The lady on the phone kept on insisting that it would be - hold your breath - GBP 792. She couldn't tell me how to make the maths work, just said "there are many things to take into consideration" but couldn't put numbers to them, so it was impossible to figure out whether there was an error in what she was doing or whether there was something that I don't understand. She just kept repeating the same thing "that's what the system tells me". I showed a lot of understanding and almost compassion with her for not being given the information that would explain this, so I asked to speak to someone who would. Put on hold for 15 minutes, she came back with the same mantra.
And throughout the conversation a complete lack of common sense: how can it be that it's more expensive to change an existing ticket than just buy the same ticket as a new one? And yes, the old ticket was changeable, against a fee, so it's not a matter of a non-changeable ticket.
Really really frustrating being presented with the option to pay way too much and talking to someone obviously unable to use common sense and basic arithmetics to see that something doesn't make sense, and unwilling to get the customer to talk to someone who knows or can explain.
Note that I did not say that the agent was an idiot, I don't assume low IQs or anything, but this complete absence of common sense is really frustrating.
Fare of old ticket: GBP 586
Fare of new ticket: GBP 676
Change in taxes: GBP 5.60
Change fee: GBP 70
In my book that would leave me with GBP 165 to pay.
The lady on the phone kept on insisting that it would be - hold your breath - GBP 792. She couldn't tell me how to make the maths work, just said "there are many things to take into consideration" but couldn't put numbers to them, so it was impossible to figure out whether there was an error in what she was doing or whether there was something that I don't understand. She just kept repeating the same thing "that's what the system tells me". I showed a lot of understanding and almost compassion with her for not being given the information that would explain this, so I asked to speak to someone who would. Put on hold for 15 minutes, she came back with the same mantra.
And throughout the conversation a complete lack of common sense: how can it be that it's more expensive to change an existing ticket than just buy the same ticket as a new one? And yes, the old ticket was changeable, against a fee, so it's not a matter of a non-changeable ticket.
Really really frustrating being presented with the option to pay way too much and talking to someone obviously unable to use common sense and basic arithmetics to see that something doesn't make sense, and unwilling to get the customer to talk to someone who knows or can explain.
Note that I did not say that the agent was an idiot, I don't assume low IQs or anything, but this complete absence of common sense is really frustrating.
Jul 1, 2017, 11:44 am
#60
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,686
I maintain that there is a complete absence of common sense at BA call centres. Summary of a looong, very courteous but ultimately frustrating conversation where I wanted to change a ticket:
Fare of old ticket: GBP 586
Fare of new ticket: GBP 676
Change in taxes: GBP 5.60
Change fee: GBP 70
In my book that would leave me with GBP 165 to pay.
The lady on the phone kept on insisting that it would be - hold your breath - GBP 792. She couldn't tell me how to make the maths work, just said "there are many things to take into consideration" but couldn't put numbers to them, so it was impossible to figure out whether there was an error in what she was doing or whether there was something that I don't understand. She just kept repeating the same thing "that's what the system tells me". I showed a lot of understanding and almost compassion with her for not being given the information that would explain this, so I asked to speak to someone who would. Put on hold for 15 minutes, she came back with the same mantra.
And throughout the conversation a complete lack of common sense: how can it be that it's more expensive to change an existing ticket than just buy the same ticket as a new one? And yes, the old ticket was changeable, against a fee, so it's not a matter obf a non-changeable ticket.
Really really frustrating being presented with the option to pay way too much and talking to someone obviously unable to use common sense and basic arithmetics to see that something doesn't make sense, and unwilling to get the customer to talk to someone who knows or can explain.
Note that I did not say that the agent was an idiot, I don't assume low IQs or anything, but this complete absence of common sense is really frustrating.
Fare of old ticket: GBP 586
Fare of new ticket: GBP 676
Change in taxes: GBP 5.60
Change fee: GBP 70
In my book that would leave me with GBP 165 to pay.
The lady on the phone kept on insisting that it would be - hold your breath - GBP 792. She couldn't tell me how to make the maths work, just said "there are many things to take into consideration" but couldn't put numbers to them, so it was impossible to figure out whether there was an error in what she was doing or whether there was something that I don't understand. She just kept repeating the same thing "that's what the system tells me". I showed a lot of understanding and almost compassion with her for not being given the information that would explain this, so I asked to speak to someone who would. Put on hold for 15 minutes, she came back with the same mantra.
And throughout the conversation a complete lack of common sense: how can it be that it's more expensive to change an existing ticket than just buy the same ticket as a new one? And yes, the old ticket was changeable, against a fee, so it's not a matter obf a non-changeable ticket.
Really really frustrating being presented with the option to pay way too much and talking to someone obviously unable to use common sense and basic arithmetics to see that something doesn't make sense, and unwilling to get the customer to talk to someone who knows or can explain.
Note that I did not say that the agent was an idiot, I don't assume low IQs or anything, but this complete absence of common sense is really frustrating.
There is the scenario that yes a new ticket can be cheaper than changing because of BA fare structure/fare rules. However it also depends on what you are looking for as the new ticket is it oneway/return and other factors.
You can often get the case where a lower fare is available however the fare rules on an existing booking say that the new fare must be equal or higher. Meaning you could purchase the fare as a new ticket but not change to it. Im aware this isnt your scenario but im saying there are scenarios where you might see a price for a new ticket online etc but it cant be applied to an existing booking.
I do appreciate from your point of view and other customers why it wouldnt make sense. Its a shame that the agent couldnt explain why they were quoting this figure.