EU promises “We will have a summer tourist season” [for travellers from Europe]
Jul 12, 2020, 2:40 pm
#1576
Suspended
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: ABZ/NCL
Posts: 2,943
It's impossible to argue with people who say that. They are scared and they are holding on to this to feel like they have some control over the situation. But they don't and people will still do what they want to do. Assess your own risk, take some precautions and then enjoy your life. It's all we can do. We can spend all year hiding from the virus to eradicate it and then all die from a nuclear war next year.
We have to just get on with our lives, and stop pretending we can magically end the virus with bits of cloth.
Jul 12, 2020, 2:41 pm
#1577
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: LHR/ATH
Programs: Amex Platinum, LH SEN (Gold), BA Bronze
Posts: 4,489
I agree. Usually when a government prints money like there is now tomorrow it leads to huge devaluation, but as everyone is doing it now it does not seem to matter. However the UK and US have the independence to get on with it, the eurozone on the other hand....that is going to be interesting.
Of the Ł190Bn spent by HMG on covid19 support measures, Ł100Bn has been conjured up out of thin air by the BoE.
Of the Ł190Bn spent by HMG on covid19 support measures, Ł100Bn has been conjured up out of thin air by the BoE.
Jul 12, 2020, 2:48 pm
#1578
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2014
Programs: Top Tier with all 3 alliances
Posts: 12,618
I think we may need to classify refusal to take basic public health precautions as an underlying medical condition and do some research on it...
Jul 12, 2020, 2:56 pm
#1580
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: New Zealand (when I'm home!)
Programs: Air NZ Elite
Posts: 1,223
Ultimately, everyone has the responsibility to protect themselves. Everyone is aware of the risks associated with the virus and should act accordingly. You cannot control what others do so it is a losing battle. Anyway, a lot of innocent people die because someone else chose to get in a car and to drive it.
There are laws against drunk driving, and if you get caught, you get punished.
There are laws about wearing safety equipment around building sites. If your staff don't wear it, you get fined.
There are laws about wearing seat belts. If you don't wear them, you get punished.
There are laws about face masks. If you don't wear them, you get punished.
Should we not have laws against drunk driving, because "it's a losing battle" since some will ignore it?
Should we not have laws about wearing safety equipment, because "it's a losing battle" since some will ignore it?
Should we not have laws about wearing seat belts, because "it's a losing battle" since some will ignore it?
Should we not have laws, because some people will ignore it selfishly, therefore it's a losing battle?
No, we have laws, and we enforce laws, because those laws are there for a good reason.
And also, your strawman of "it's unenforceable" is exactly that, a strawman, because whether people choose to do the right thing, does not change the fact that it is the right thing, which is the actual argument here, and not whether it's enforceable, so do not try to hide behind "well it's unenforcable" - even if it were, it does not change that it is morally and ethically the right thing to wear one and that opting out is selfish.
Hardly, what if someone has breathing problems, or finds it claustrophobic, or is concerned about the poor hygiene aspects of a mask?
I would argue it is just as selfish of people to insist on masks and criticize those who do not wear them, as it alleviates their paranoia. If someone is SO OBSESSED and concerned with getting the virus, stay at home. Nobody is forcing you not to.
I would argue it is just as selfish of people to insist on masks and criticize those who do not wear them, as it alleviates their paranoia. If someone is SO OBSESSED and concerned with getting the virus, stay at home. Nobody is forcing you not to.
If they can physically wear one, whether they find it "claustrophobic" or not, they can physically wear one, and are thus morally & ethically obligated to wear one.
I find this so ironic.
You say, "but what about claustrophobia. I can't stand to wear one. It makes me scared. And so if I can't go out without wearing a mask, then I can't go out at all."
Have you ever decided to take this argument one step further, and consider that:
* People who are elderly, with less time to live than you, whose every day is even more precious,
* People who are recovering from cancer.
* People who have weakened immune systems.
* People with health conditions.
Can't themselves safely step outside, because others are not taking mitigation techniques to lessen the spread and bring it down, that they physically can do, but choose not to, because they feel "claustrophobic"?
Anyone that can physically & medically wear a mask, but chooses not to, because they don't like it, not because they medically can't, but because they don't like it and complains that otherwise their freedom of movement is restricted, is, ironically, directly causing these groups of people to have their freedom to safety of movement restricted.
You say, ironically, "if people don't like me not wearing a mask, then STAY HOME"
Why don't you apply that logic to yourself? If you don't like wearing a mask, then YOU "stay home."
Jul 12, 2020, 2:57 pm
#1581
Suspended
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 687
We actually can control what others do? I'm sorry, as far as I'm aware:
There are laws against drunk driving, and if you get caught, you get punished.
There are laws about wearing safety equipment around building sites. If your staff don't wear it, you get fined.
There are laws about wearing seat belts. If you don't wear them, you get punished.
There are laws about face masks. If you don't wear them, you get punished.
Should we not have laws against drunk driving, because "it's a losing battle" since some will ignore it?
Should we not have laws about wearing safety equipment, because "it's a losing battle" since some will ignore it?
Should we not have laws about wearing seat belts, because "it's a losing battle" since some will ignore it?
Should we not have laws, because some people will ignore it selfishly, therefore it's a losing battle?
No, we have laws, and we enforce laws, because those laws are there for a good reason.
And also, your strawman of "it's unenforceable" is exactly that, a strawman, because whether people choose to do the right thing, does not change the fact that it is the right thing, which is the actual argument here, and not whether it's enforceable, so do not try to hide behind "well it's unenforcable" - even if it were, it does not change that it is morally and ethically the right thing to wear one and that opting out is selfish.
Your strawman arguments fool literally no one.
If they can physically wear one, whether they find it "claustrophobic" or not, they can physically wear one, and are thus morally & ethically obligated to wear one.
I find this so ironic.
You say, "but what about claustrophobia. I can't stand to wear one. It makes me scared. And so if I can't go out without wearing a mask, then I can't go out at all."
Have you ever decided to take this argument one step further, and consider that:
* People who are elderly, with less time to live than you, whose every day is even more precious,
* People who are recovering from cancer.
* People who have weakened immune systems.
* People with health conditions.
Can't themselves safely step outside, because others are not taking mitigation techniques to lessen the spread and bring it down, that they physically can do, but choose not to, because they feel "claustrophobic"?
Anyone that can physically & medically wear a mask, but chooses not to, because they don't like it, not because they medically can't, but because they don't like it and complains that otherwise their freedom of movement is restricted, is, ironically, directly causing these groups of people to have their freedom to safety of movement restricted.
You say, ironically, "if people don't like me not wearing a mask, then STAY HOME"
Why don't you apply that logic to yourself? If you don't like wearing a mask, then YOU "stay home."
There are laws against drunk driving, and if you get caught, you get punished.
There are laws about wearing safety equipment around building sites. If your staff don't wear it, you get fined.
There are laws about wearing seat belts. If you don't wear them, you get punished.
There are laws about face masks. If you don't wear them, you get punished.
Should we not have laws against drunk driving, because "it's a losing battle" since some will ignore it?
Should we not have laws about wearing safety equipment, because "it's a losing battle" since some will ignore it?
Should we not have laws about wearing seat belts, because "it's a losing battle" since some will ignore it?
Should we not have laws, because some people will ignore it selfishly, therefore it's a losing battle?
No, we have laws, and we enforce laws, because those laws are there for a good reason.
And also, your strawman of "it's unenforceable" is exactly that, a strawman, because whether people choose to do the right thing, does not change the fact that it is the right thing, which is the actual argument here, and not whether it's enforceable, so do not try to hide behind "well it's unenforcable" - even if it were, it does not change that it is morally and ethically the right thing to wear one and that opting out is selfish.
Your strawman arguments fool literally no one.
If they can physically wear one, whether they find it "claustrophobic" or not, they can physically wear one, and are thus morally & ethically obligated to wear one.
I find this so ironic.
You say, "but what about claustrophobia. I can't stand to wear one. It makes me scared. And so if I can't go out without wearing a mask, then I can't go out at all."
Have you ever decided to take this argument one step further, and consider that:
* People who are elderly, with less time to live than you, whose every day is even more precious,
* People who are recovering from cancer.
* People who have weakened immune systems.
* People with health conditions.
Can't themselves safely step outside, because others are not taking mitigation techniques to lessen the spread and bring it down, that they physically can do, but choose not to, because they feel "claustrophobic"?
Anyone that can physically & medically wear a mask, but chooses not to, because they don't like it, not because they medically can't, but because they don't like it and complains that otherwise their freedom of movement is restricted, is, ironically, directly causing these groups of people to have their freedom to safety of movement restricted.
You say, ironically, "if people don't like me not wearing a mask, then STAY HOME"
Why don't you apply that logic to yourself? If you don't like wearing a mask, then YOU "stay home."
Jul 12, 2020, 2:59 pm
#1582
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: New Zealand (when I'm home!)
Programs: Air NZ Elite
Posts: 1,223
No I'm sorry. If you:
Want to drive drunk, you can't do what you want.
If you want to not wear a hard hat in a building site, you can't do what you want.
You can't just do what you want, if what you want is risky & dangerous, and impacts others.
Otherwise, we literally wouldn't have laws.
Me living in NZ, does not change anything I have to say. If you dislike our approach, go ahead. It's literally not relevant to the discussion, so why bring it up.
It doesn't change that your decision to not wear a mask is selfish.
Don't divert from that. Your decision to not wear a mask is selfish, and the argument of "I'll do what I want, you do what you want" is a literal strawman, because we have laws, and all of us, are glad we have laws, that stop people taking actions against us, that hurt us & are dangerous.
Want to drive drunk, you can't do what you want.
If you want to not wear a hard hat in a building site, you can't do what you want.
You can't just do what you want, if what you want is risky & dangerous, and impacts others.
Otherwise, we literally wouldn't have laws.
Me living in NZ, does not change anything I have to say. If you dislike our approach, go ahead. It's literally not relevant to the discussion, so why bring it up.
It doesn't change that your decision to not wear a mask is selfish.
Don't divert from that. Your decision to not wear a mask is selfish, and the argument of "I'll do what I want, you do what you want" is a literal strawman, because we have laws, and all of us, are glad we have laws, that stop people taking actions against us, that hurt us & are dangerous.
Jul 12, 2020, 3:01 pm
#1583
Suspended
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: ABZ/NCL
Posts: 2,943
No I'm sorry. If you:
Want to drive drunk, you can't do what you want.
If you want to not wear a hard hat in a building site, you can't do what you want.
You can't just do what you want, if what you want is risky & dangerous, and impacts others.
Otherwise, we literally wouldn't have laws.
Want to drive drunk, you can't do what you want.
If you want to not wear a hard hat in a building site, you can't do what you want.
You can't just do what you want, if what you want is risky & dangerous, and impacts others.
Otherwise, we literally wouldn't have laws.
Jul 12, 2020, 3:04 pm
#1584
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands
Programs: KL Gold, SQ KF Gold, CX Green
Posts: 9,512
Feel free to move to Brazil or certain parts of the USA if you want to live in a country or state where Covidiots make the rules.
Jul 12, 2020, 3:05 pm
#1585
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: New Zealand (when I'm home!)
Programs: Air NZ Elite
Posts: 1,223
Jul 12, 2020, 3:05 pm
#1586
Suspended
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: ABZ/NCL
Posts: 2,943
And nobody can ever question the rules? Hmmm maybe China or North Korea is a place for you?
Jul 12, 2020, 3:07 pm
#1588
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: LHR/ATH
Programs: Amex Platinum, LH SEN (Gold), BA Bronze
Posts: 4,489
No it is the position of a lot of the UK judging by the amount of people I saw on the streets today living happy, normal lives just as if it was pre COVID 19.
Jul 12, 2020, 3:09 pm
#1590
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2014
Programs: Top Tier with all 3 alliances
Posts: 12,618
They are not even allowed to post their anti-mask rants here anyway, even Flyertalk has determined that this is outside of acceptable behavior here.... I think at a minimum if you want to break the laws and not follow the rules and potentially infect a bunch of people, it will be between you and your conscience and whatever other repercussions you may have, but don't come here to brag and try to get the moral high ground, at least have the decency to be ashamed a bit, lol...