Dave Noble

You say that you will "own" the violation, but seems that you are trying to blame signage et alia for it. There are signs that will indicate that there is a bus lane ahead and there are lots of fixed cameras to enforce infringements

If going to 'own' it , own it

Hertz does have admin work to do since it will be having to respond to the infringement notice with details of who the driver is. If Hertz processed the GBP80 payment, that also does take up time of a person but also ensured that it only was charged at the lower rate

Oakshadow

If by "there are signs that will indicate that there is a bus lane ahead" you mean this (actual place of the violation)...



then yes.
Unless you are intimately familiar with British road-signage, on a rainy low-visibility day when negotiating traffic and directions is a challenge in itself, this diagramed "non-bus traffic merge right" sign can be very confusing and easily not immediately understood to North Americans driving in London for the first time.

My statement that it's confusing and that I will own the violation fully stands.

notquiteaff

I have driven in many major cities in North America and Europe. Not UK, but in some “wrong-side” driving countries. Don’t think I have ever seen a sign like that. No doubt with sufficient time I would have figured out what they mean, but in a moving vehicle about to enter an intersection that isn’t a place where I would likely have sufficient time. And assuming you were going straight through the intersection, changing lanes in the intersection is usually not considered a good idea (and is illegal in some jurisdictions; not sure about the UK or England).

Lesson learned here (for me): don’t drive in London. One of these days we will go on a trip that will require renting a vehicle for driving around the British Isles. We will make sure to avoid London. The countryside doesn’t scare me.

Regarding the fee, yes, Hertz has some administrative task, but it seems to a nice profit center unless they pay their employees a lot more than I would expect.

Dave Noble

It isn't confusing - that is the standard road sign for a bus lane. If I am driving in the USA, it is up to me to understand US road signs. If someone visits the UK, it is down to them to understand the UK road rules and road signs - including the restrictions for vehicles in bus lanes

Oakshadow

London did scare me and even my British friends in Kent are afraid to drive there and repeatedly called me "brave."

We were staying in rural Kent, which is relatively non-stressful to drive in. Ideally we would've rented from an agency in the suburbs and dive out from there. Unfortunately we arrived at St. Pancras on a Saturday afternoon when only the high-traffic locations like airports and main train stations were open. London City Airport might've been an option but the rates were prohibitively expensive.

One thing to be careful of in the country is the insanely inconsistent speed limits with no warnings of reduced speed limits ahead like there is in North America - 60 suddenly becoming 30 without warning is very common - as well as the multiple speed cameras. Thankfully there is signage regarding the approaching cameras.

m907

That's ridiculous. It does not cost them that much money to "process" the fine. It's also questionable to me whether they can actually do this legally in America since they're pleading guilty on behalf of a driver who hasn't consented.

Wiggums

No, they are not pleading guilty on behalf of the driver... they are simply informing the issuing law enforcement agency the offending driver's name and address.

Yes, it is perfectly legal in America. If I were the owner of a car and a friend got a ticket while driving my car, I sure would want him to pay for it, not me.

Do you honestly think car rental agencies should pay for the moving violations?

Wiggums

Enforcement has gotten ridiculous lately.

In 2017, I drove on the M1 from northern England to London. There was an average speed check with the cameras taking pictures of all the cars, then miles later down, there would be cameras taking the pictures of all the cars again. That way, they could tell who has been speeding... Gone are the days we'd slam our brakes when we saw the ||||||||||| painted on the motorways.

strickerj

I think there might be some confusion here; Hertz isn't paying the fine for you, but rather charging you a fee for processing the violation (that is, matching the time of the violation to the renter and forwarding the renter's contact info to the police). This is likely an automated process, and they seem to be charging upwards of $50 for it. (And again, this is in addition to the fine for the violation.)

If Hertz were actually paying the fine on your behalf (effectively waiving your right to appeal), then I'd agree with the previous post. I've heard anecdotes of this happening but I don't think it's the norm?

Wiggums

No, definitely not the norm. But since a service was requested and rendered.. and it's in the terms and conditions as well.. that's why I rent from Sixt. It was €23 each, I think... I got 13 LTZ tickets from Italy. Rome, Florence, and Pisa. Only 2 came to my mail.. a year later! But I didn't dispute the rest of the tickets since a service had been rendered.

Dave Noble

You know - there is a very easy way to avoid fines - simply just stay within the speed limits; average speed cameras do deal nicely with those that would speed and suddenly brake plus do allow a leniancy for those that inadventently briefly exceed the limit

My understanding is that hertz in UK does pay the fine - if wanting to appeal, you can request a 3rd party letter from Hertz; if the camera has taken a photo of vehicle in the bus lane, there isn't really much to appeal

m907

I may have misunderstood the OP. I thought he said Hertz paid it.
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Dave Noble

London isn't in any part of the Americas - there is no pleading of guilt or otherwise in processing a PCN or FPN

jason8612

Let's stay on topic about Hertz and not the legality of traffic fines.

Thanks
Jason8612 Hertz Mod

Wiggums

Looks like Hertz now charges £42 so be careful with the cameras. I know the procedure, Hertz didn't pay the fine, I am paying it.

I got it for driving through "Bus Gates" which was new and my GPS, in sore need of updating, didn't know that and told me to go a certain way where I had to drive over it.

I went back to Google Streets, and could see two cars driving over it and getting fined £70 each. Easy money for Bristol.

Ran into a problem.. tried to pay thru the website, but it would not accept my U.S. five-digit postcode so I e-mailed them instead.. why can't they make credit card transactions international-friendly?