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How to destroy/hammer an RFID chip in a passport

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Old Aug 11, 2011, 3:32 pm
  #31  
 
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Originally Posted by cb1111
This is the type of misinformation that ruins your credibility. Please link to an article or legal document that validates your claim that no warrant is required and that they can just listen in on your (turned off) cell phone in the US.
There was an overblown reaction to a story about Michigan cops grabbing data (and then the State seeming to stonewall the ACLU on a FOIA request). At the time, I also read a number of reports where someone claimed they could get it while the phone was "off".

This is completely untrue for two reasons. First, people were confusing "off" with "standby". Secondly, there was a belief that this was being done wirelessly which is not true, the phone has to be physically hooked up to a data cable*.

The "off" thing doesn't really matter - as the cops could just turn the phone on.

http://www.mobilemag.com/2011/04/21/...ufed-handheld/

http://www.policeone.com/police-tech...ta-extraction/

Could cops do this without a warrant? They "could" if they have the phone in their possession. I would maintain that if you've got cops looking at your cell phone with that level of detail without a warrant then you have bigger problems.

This all doesn't apply in California. The California State Supreme Court ruled that police can search the contents of a cell phone when they arrest someone (State v. Diaz).

* There is a bluetooth module sold for these devices, however it should still take manual intervention to make the connection (device must be discoverable, enter bluetooth passkey, etc.).

Last edited by coyote; Aug 11, 2011 at 5:00 pm
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Old Aug 11, 2011, 3:58 pm
  #32  
 
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Originally Posted by cb1111
This is the type of misinformation that ruins your credibility. Please link to an article or legal document that validates your claim that no warrant is required and that they can just listen in on your (turned off) cell phone in the US.
Forget legal, how about some kind of technical documents that explain how it is possible.
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Old Aug 11, 2011, 4:02 pm
  #33  
 
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Originally Posted by stifle
Some e-passports use the machine-readable zone as a key to unlock the RFID chip, hence they must be optically read before they can be remote read. No idea which ones, though. I don't have an e-passport (although I will have to get one next year )
Our Irish ones have "basic access control" which need to be scanned first I believe but I'm not too sure that bypassing this "zone" is all that difficult.
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Old Aug 11, 2011, 4:09 pm
  #34  
 
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Originally Posted by mileena
I know the best way to destroy an RFID chip in a passport is by hammering....
Best way, really?

Could you zap the RFID chip with one of those old magnetic erasers we used to use to bulk erase audio & video magnetic tapes? I know I'm dating myself, but I still have one.
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Old Aug 11, 2011, 4:10 pm
  #35  
 
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Originally Posted by ibdublin
Our Irish ones have "basic access control" which need to be scanned first I believe but I'm not too sure that bypassing this "zone" is all that difficult.
Well, it depends on the length of the encryption key. I am not a communications engineer, but I believe it will take a while trying different combinations of the key. In the end, it may not be worth the effort.
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Old Aug 11, 2011, 4:22 pm
  #36  
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Originally Posted by Travelsonic
Originally Posted by cb1111
This is the type of misinformation that ruins your credibility. Please link to an article or legal document that validates your claim that no warrant is required and that they can just listen in on your (turned off) cell phone in the US.
Forget legal, how about some kind of technical documents that explain how it is possible.
It was possible to listen in on AMPS cellular calls with a plain Radio Shack scanner. Even if the actual frequencies were blocked, a scanner with just a double conversion receiving circuit would able to pick up the frequency "image". In the mid 90s when CDMA and TDMA came along, all that could be heard was hash. If anyone wanted to intercept cal,ls they would probably need the cooperation of the cellular carrier.

Back OT, don't microwave a passport. Se my first post in this thread for a link to an article.
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Old Aug 11, 2011, 5:15 pm
  #37  
 
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anybopdy know of a reaaly cheap USB-RFID reader or similar,
that would work to "sniff" a passport?

I saw some like $60+, anything cheaper
were bare-bones boards that require integration.
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Old Aug 11, 2011, 5:38 pm
  #38  
 
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Originally Posted by MrHalliday
anybopdy know of a reaaly cheap USB-RFID reader or similar,
that would work to "sniff" a passport?

I saw some like $60+, anything cheaper
were bare-bones boards that require integration.
Where'd you see the one for $60?
I'd buy that as well.. The ones I saw were over $250
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Old Aug 11, 2011, 6:12 pm
  #39  
 
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Originally Posted by Travelsonic
Forget legal, how about some kind of technical documents that explain how it is possible.
The technology is readily available but with certain exceptions you need physical access to the phone at some point to install a bit of software.

The problem is that it is illegal in the US and law enforcement needs some sort of warrant. The type of warrant depends on state or Federal law.
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Old Aug 11, 2011, 6:21 pm
  #40  
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Mod - Much of this thread instructs on and encourages federal felony conduct. It's one thing to crticize the use of a technology or the government, quite another to provide instructions on how to violate the law and then encourage it.
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Old Aug 11, 2011, 7:24 pm
  #41  
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Originally Posted by König
At the airport, they always swiped my passport; however, when I entered by car at Peace Arch numerous times, they read the passport book and passport card by putting them on the RFID reader pad. They also have vicinity RFID readers on the approach to the customs booths for passport cards, but I do not use them because of privacy concerns and because it does not speed up process at all.
The privacy concerns with the RFID feature of the Passport Card are minimal because it only contains a numeric identifier as opposed to all the information that the ePassport chip has. The unique identifier links to information in the CBP database but is meaningless on its own-- just a random number.

Originally Posted by Often1
Mod - Much of this thread instructs on and encourages federal felony conduct. It's one thing to crticize the use of a technology or the government, quite another to provide instructions on how to violate the law and then encourage it.
Wow. Just wow.
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Old Aug 11, 2011, 7:31 pm
  #42  
 
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I also just received the GE "Card" (trusted traveller).
Any idea if that would have the same chip as Passport?
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Old Aug 11, 2011, 7:33 pm
  #43  
 
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Originally Posted by alexb133
Where'd you see the one for $60?
I'd buy that as well.. The ones I saw were over $250
Well, now I am not sure I can replicate my search,
(or if I was accurate )
but I can try tomorrow...

edit: sorry, can't find it,
but I don't really know enough
about what specs are anyway.

Last edited by MrHalliday; Aug 12, 2011 at 3:37 pm
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Old Aug 11, 2011, 7:34 pm
  #44  
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Originally Posted by MrHalliday
I also just received the GE "Card" (trusted traveller).
Any idea if that would have the same chip as Passport?
No; it has a "unique identifier" that can be read from 20-30 feet away. The unique identifier is just a random number that links to your record in the CBP database, so there is really no privacy concern.
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Old Aug 11, 2011, 9:25 pm
  #45  
 
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Originally Posted by Often1
Mod - Much of this thread instructs on and encourages federal felony conduct. It's one thing to crticize the use of a technology or the government, quite another to provide instructions on how to violate the law and then encourage it.
I agree. Even the original topic is illegal.
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