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-   -   In-laws in a bind in Greece -- please help (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/practical-travel-safety-security-issues/1497616-laws-bind-greece-please-help.html)

seawolf Aug 27, 2013 12:08 am

The €1200 fine probably came from the US embassy.

http://athens.usembassy.gov/mobile//residency_08.html

Or here
http://www.greecetravel.com/mazarakis/wisdom/tourist-visa.html

Seems like YMMV
http://www.ofrevolt.com/2012/01/americans-in-europe-what-to-do-when.html?m=1

Yoshi212 Aug 27, 2013 7:31 am

I am not suggesting they leave illegally but some routes of transportation and some countries are more relaxed about these things than others. Greece to Turkey may be more friendly(as in willing to overlook this) than Greece to Germany/other Schengen.


Originally Posted by RadioGirl (Post 21341760)
How do they get to Turkey without exiting the Schengen zone? :confused:

The other way around but presumably the same rules: http://www.feribot.net/feribot/?partnerid=Mzg=&lang=en



Wherever they exit, and wherever they exit to, it will be found that they've overstayed. Unless they leave Greece/enter Turkey illegally, which leads to all sorts of other problems, including the fact that their exit from the EU won't be recorded, so the next time they try to visit they'll have problems.

OP, if it were me, I would advise them to (a) leave as soon as possible, admitting that they've only realized their mistake but are making an effort to fix it right away, and (b) try to leave directly from Greece to a non-Schengen point so that they can have this difficult conversation in a language and setting where your MIL is comfortable.


catocony Aug 27, 2013 7:46 am

Yoshi,

I really think you're missing the point here. If they leave via pack mule overland from Greece to Turkey, then he's off the hook on paying the fine and everything. What he's not off the hook for is the next time he attempts to fly to Greece and is denied entry to Shengen because they have no electronic record of him leaving next time and there's no exit stamp in his passport.

If he goes through regular passport controls on exit from Greece, they may take pity on him and let him go without the fine. The Germans or Swiss or French or Italians might do the same. However, he will definitely show up as overstayed in the system, and may end up with the dreaded stamp in his passport that says so. In that case, he'll have some trouble to deal with if he wants to return to Greece in the future.

You're making an assumption that Greece has lax land border controls. I don't know if they do or not, but it's irrelevant as far as re-entering Shengen in the future.

catocony Aug 27, 2013 7:49 am

For the OP, since they're your in-laws, it's not your problem at all. They're adults, and apparently have been traveling to Greece for a while. I wouldn't lose any sleep over this at all. If they have to pay the fine and he's banned from entering Shengen for X years, that's his fault for overstaying the 90-day limit.

newlywedJ Aug 27, 2013 8:09 am


Originally Posted by MSPeconomist (Post 21341795)
I second the suggestion that it would be better to leave through Greece, as the spouse of an elderly Greek citizen. Germany and Switzerland are likely to be strict, especially with certain nationalities or ethnic backgrounds, just as they historically have been tough on gastearbeiter.

I found one way tickets from ATH to CLE on SAS for $1300. What would suck is if Greece still fines him or even each of them 1200 euro. But it sounds better than dealing with possibly worse in Germany, and I don't see how they are going to make their flight anyway, and then they could have trouble rebooking. United could say it was their fault and they have to buy a new ticket.

newlywedJ Aug 27, 2013 8:13 am

Catacony...hilarious about the pack mule. You are exactly right. The thing is they WANT to come back to Greece. They have homes there and are planning to return next summer too: For less than 90 days...let's make that 80 just to be safe.
I knew I came to the right place in getting ideas and advice on this situation, even if there is no real solution. You guys are awesome.

newlywedJ Aug 27, 2013 8:19 am


Originally Posted by seawolf (Post 21342098)

The US Embassy site seems ambiguous whether they could get off paying that fine in every Schengen country. It starts off saying, "In Greece, fines for overstaying...."

bruceba Aug 27, 2013 9:08 am

Does the father in law have any extra-rights as he is married to a Greek citizen ? Can he not get some form of spousal exemption?

newlywedJ Aug 27, 2013 9:35 am

They have tried but there is some weird rule that it doesn't apply if they were not married IN Greece.

squeakr Aug 27, 2013 9:50 am

this has been cross posted in several places by the OP
 
which is against FT rules BIG TIME. :)
However since the OP has been getting very helpful advice here it will remain open.
But for future reference PLEASE don't post the same appeal in several places. If it's an emergency it's best to post it in ONE forum and then PM the moderators of that forum to move it to the BEST place to be seen and responded to.

Good luck.

squeakr

co Mod TS/S

carole_d Aug 27, 2013 10:06 am


Originally Posted by newlywedJ (Post 21344036)
They have tried but there is some weird rule that it doesn't apply if they were not married IN Greece.

Would it help if they got (re)married in Greece?

newlywedJ Aug 27, 2013 10:09 am


Originally Posted by carole_d (Post 21344235)
Would it help if they got (re)married in Greece?

Haha!
I will ask. That is hilarious.
Moderator I apologize for the cross post and thank you for your understanding.

carole_d Aug 27, 2013 10:11 am


Originally Posted by newlywedJ (Post 21344245)
Haha!
I will ask. That is hilarious.

It's worth a try. :)

One of my coworkers overstayed in Bulgaria and was able to pay a fee (and is back in Bulgaria right now.) I'm not sure who he paid, though.

Best of luck to your in-laws.

GUWonder Aug 27, 2013 10:47 am

When it comes to couples where one spouse is a citizen of an EU country and the other spouse is not, the couple may have greater rights to stay without penalty in the EU countries in which neither is a citizen. This is because a given EU country can discriminate against their own citizens and their citizens' spouses in ways that they cannot do to citizens of other countries and their spouses.

For example, for the better part of this current century, Danes partnered with Canadians or Americans settled in southern Sweden because it was easier for a Dane to bring in a foreign non-EU/EFTA/EEC spouse/partner to settle in Sweden than for a Dane to bring in a foreign non-EU/EFTA/EEC spouse/partner to settle in Denmark. Actually the laws are such in some places that the Dane and the foreign spouse/partner would qualify for Swedish citizenship faster than the foreign/spouse could qualify for Danish citizenship.

I would suggest departing from say Italy or France or the Netherlands.

Often1 Aug 27, 2013 1:43 pm

OP - Much of the advice in this thread is qualified with "I would think" or "ought to". The broader issue here isn't the potential fine, it's the possibility that the FIL might be banned from returning to Greece for a significant period of time.

For that reason, OP's in-laws should consult a lawyer in Greece as to the state of the law and what can best be done rather than relying on an anonymous website.


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