UA will not help on shorten connection on seperate tickets (SQ miles ticket+UA paid)
#46
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Silicon wasteland
Programs: UA 1KMM
Posts: 1,408
For ORD-MKE? Not a chance.
Especially since the OP bought tickets for relatives who are not seasoned travelers. Just imagine how the conversation would go...
"Sorry, we're late. Had a flat tire and need to get on the next MKE flight"
"Um, why don't you just drive? It's just another hour up the road."
"Oh, well, we need to get there fast!"
"Waiting 2 hours for the next flight will be slower"
"But we're meeting somebody at the airport and have no way to contact them!"
"..."
This whole scenario (OP, not Boghopper suggestion!) is just a really really really bad idea and a case study of what not to do.
#47
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Dubai / NYC
Programs: EK-IO, UA-1K2MM, ETIHAD-GOLD, SPG-PLAT LIFETIME, JUMEIRAH SERIUS GOLD
Posts: 5,220
At the risk of going WAAAYYYY off-topic:
So I was curious and decided to look into it a bit more. I'll admit I was lazy and assumed any *A flight to EWR had a UA codeshare number, and here's what I found:
LH: FRA, DUS, MUC (3)
LX: ZRH (1)
OS: VIE (1)
SK: OSL, CPH, ARN (3)
TP: LIS, OPO (2)
AI: AMD, BOM (2)
CA: PEK (1)
...for a total of 13.
On UA metal, you can fly EWR to well over 30 intercontinental destinations: AMS, ATH, BCN, PEK, BFS, TXL, BHX, BOG, BRU, DEL, DUB, EDI, FRA, GVA, GLA, HAM, HKG, LIM, LIS, LHR, MAD, MAN, MXP, BOM, MUC, NCL, OSL, CDG, FCO, GRU, ARN, PVG, TLV, NRT, VCE, and ZRH, and that doesn't count any of the many destinations in Canada, Mexico, Central America, and the Carribean.
HOWEVER....
What really tilts the argument back in your favor is the frequencies out of JFK, which are obviously exclusively non-UA. And, as you correctly point out, to most New Yorkers EWR is an also-ran.
So I was curious and decided to look into it a bit more. I'll admit I was lazy and assumed any *A flight to EWR had a UA codeshare number, and here's what I found:
LH: FRA, DUS, MUC (3)
LX: ZRH (1)
OS: VIE (1)
SK: OSL, CPH, ARN (3)
TP: LIS, OPO (2)
AI: AMD, BOM (2)
CA: PEK (1)
...for a total of 13.
On UA metal, you can fly EWR to well over 30 intercontinental destinations: AMS, ATH, BCN, PEK, BFS, TXL, BHX, BOG, BRU, DEL, DUB, EDI, FRA, GVA, GLA, HAM, HKG, LIM, LIS, LHR, MAD, MAN, MXP, BOM, MUC, NCL, OSL, CDG, FCO, GRU, ARN, PVG, TLV, NRT, VCE, and ZRH, and that doesn't count any of the many destinations in Canada, Mexico, Central America, and the Carribean.
HOWEVER....
What really tilts the argument back in your favor is the frequencies out of JFK, which are obviously exclusively non-UA. And, as you correctly point out, to most New Yorkers EWR is an also-ran.
#48
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: SF Bay Area
Programs: UA 1K, Hyatt Globalist, Virtuoso Travel Agent, Commercial Pilot
Posts: 2,133
Funny how it's the airline who sold the tkts responsibility to notify us about changes since in this age of alliances & codeshares, it's very common to book a whole multi sector intl trip but never step foot on the sellers aircraft. half of UA's flights from a gateway like NYC are actually operated by LH/LX/ETC. This rule is clearly OUTDATED. (and makes absolutely no sense)
1) It gives the customer a single point of contact, which is where they purchased the ticket, up until the date of travel,
2) Schedule changes often create mis-connects which require coordination between multiple airlines rather than just the airline that had the schedule change,
3) In some cases, only the ticketing airline has access to reissue all of the segments on the ticket (or the ticket as a whole),
4) The ticketing carrier often has additional ways of communicating with the customer (like email address, an iPhone app, etc.) that are not passed along to other carriers on the itinerary
... and I'm sure more. There are potential technological solutions to all of these except for the first, but I fully support this rule--as a travel agent, it makes my life a whole lot easier.
#49
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Dubai / NYC
Programs: EK-IO, UA-1K2MM, ETIHAD-GOLD, SPG-PLAT LIFETIME, JUMEIRAH SERIUS GOLD
Posts: 5,220
It makes lots of sense.
1) It gives the customer a single point of contact, which is where they purchased the ticket, up until the date of travel,
2) Schedule changes often create mis-connects which require coordination between multiple airlines rather than just the airline that had the schedule change,
3) In some cases, only the ticketing airline has access to reissue all of the segments on the ticket (or the ticket as a whole),
4) The ticketing carrier often has additional ways of communicating with the customer (like email address, an iPhone app, etc.) that are not passed along to other carriers on the itinerary
... and I'm sure more. There are potential technological solutions to all of these except for the first, but I fully support this rule--as a travel agent, it makes my life a whole lot easier.
1) It gives the customer a single point of contact, which is where they purchased the ticket, up until the date of travel,
2) Schedule changes often create mis-connects which require coordination between multiple airlines rather than just the airline that had the schedule change,
3) In some cases, only the ticketing airline has access to reissue all of the segments on the ticket (or the ticket as a whole),
4) The ticketing carrier often has additional ways of communicating with the customer (like email address, an iPhone app, etc.) that are not passed along to other carriers on the itinerary
... and I'm sure more. There are potential technological solutions to all of these except for the first, but I fully support this rule--as a travel agent, it makes my life a whole lot easier.
These alliances serve no purpose any more except a way to earn miles. It was easier before so many codeshares and alliances. I Rember not THAT long ago (maybe around 8-10 years, I was booked HNL-SFO-JFK on UA in full F my friend I ran into in Hawaii was booked HNL-LAX-JFK But on AA in discounted first. We stopped at AA first and I asked the agent there if I could have UA endorse my ticket so we could fly together on AA. She said I didn't even need to do that, she could pull up my United txt on her AA computer and grab it herself. Never saw that done before but she did it - to a different airline IN A DIFFERENT ALLIANCE!!
The airlines can make this much easier on the passenger. They choose not to
#50
Suspended
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 693
I understand that UA is well protected in this 'battle' and that the OP may have very limited options.
But the airline industry also enjoys truly unique protections and leeway, few other business sectors would be granted. In this case that the channel matters through which the services were purchased.
But the airline industry also enjoys truly unique protections and leeway, few other business sectors would be granted. In this case that the channel matters through which the services were purchased.
#51
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Dubai / NYC
Programs: EK-IO, UA-1K2MM, ETIHAD-GOLD, SPG-PLAT LIFETIME, JUMEIRAH SERIUS GOLD
Posts: 5,220
Yes and no. It is very common for the issuing carrier to forward all info about the passenger to the carrier actually providing the transportation (passport, FF #, PHONE CONTACT). This does not ALWAYS happen but it's very easy to call the carrier you are actually flying on and make sure they have this info. I do it all the time and maybe 20% of the time they don't have my contact (but they do after my call. This SHOULD make it easy for them to call you but as extra insurance, say your flying LH on a UA issued ticket. Download the LH App, put in your record locator AND SUBSCRIBE TO PUSH NOTIFICATIONS. has saved my bacon numerous times
#52
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: SFO/SJC
Programs: UA Silver, Marriott Gold, Hilton Gold
Posts: 15,180
It makes lots of sense.
1) It gives the customer a single point of contact, which is where they purchased the ticket, up until the date of travel,
2) Schedule changes often create mis-connects which require coordination between multiple airlines rather than just the airline that had the schedule change,
3) In some cases, only the ticketing airline has access to reissue all of the segments on the ticket (or the ticket as a whole),
4) The ticketing carrier often has additional ways of communicating with the customer (like email address, an iPhone app, etc.) that are not passed along to other carriers on the itinerary
... and I'm sure more. There are potential technological solutions to all of these except for the first, but I fully support this rule--as a travel agent, it makes my life a whole lot easier.
1) It gives the customer a single point of contact, which is where they purchased the ticket, up until the date of travel,
2) Schedule changes often create mis-connects which require coordination between multiple airlines rather than just the airline that had the schedule change,
3) In some cases, only the ticketing airline has access to reissue all of the segments on the ticket (or the ticket as a whole),
4) The ticketing carrier often has additional ways of communicating with the customer (like email address, an iPhone app, etc.) that are not passed along to other carriers on the itinerary
... and I'm sure more. There are potential technological solutions to all of these except for the first, but I fully support this rule--as a travel agent, it makes my life a whole lot easier.
Just like codeshares - it isn't 100% seamless, but meant to make it easier for a customer to have a single point for flights and purchasing a through ticket, even that the codeshare carrier doesn't necessarily serve itself.
What about when UA sells you a ticket to Abu Dhabi, Colombo, Karachi, etc, etc, etc. UA doesn't fly to any of these cities OR HAVE OFFICES THERE and while 1K's & GS have use to a Free call to UA (via ATT), which by the way many 1Ks don't even know this. Should all other passengers spend sometimes HUNDREDS of dollars listening to Elevator music waiting and waiting and waiting for an agent? Your a travel agent, if your customer is in Bora Bora do they have your home number to call you in the middle of the night? I'm sorry but I must disagree. What's the point of Alliances if they can't change a res on their OWN operated flight just because another carrier issued it - Same goes for notifications. I fly UA codeshares operated by LH all the time, when I go in their web site I can see they have my contact info (and on the rare instance they don't, I make sure they add it when I call to choose seats
These alliances serve no purpose any more except a way to earn miles. It was easier before so many codeshares and alliances. I Rember not THAT long ago (maybe around 8-10 years, I was booked HNL-SFO-JFK on UA in full F my friend I ran into in Hawaii was booked HNL-LAX-JFK But on AA in discounted first. We stopped at AA first and I asked the agent there if I could have UA endorse my ticket so we could fly together on AA. She said I didn't even need to do that, she could pull up my United txt on her AA computer and grab it herself. Never saw that done before but she did it - to a different airline IN A DIFFERENT ALLIANCE!!
The airlines can make this much easier on the passenger. They choose not to
These alliances serve no purpose any more except a way to earn miles. It was easier before so many codeshares and alliances. I Rember not THAT long ago (maybe around 8-10 years, I was booked HNL-SFO-JFK on UA in full F my friend I ran into in Hawaii was booked HNL-LAX-JFK But on AA in discounted first. We stopped at AA first and I asked the agent there if I could have UA endorse my ticket so we could fly together on AA. She said I didn't even need to do that, she could pull up my United txt on her AA computer and grab it herself. Never saw that done before but she did it - to a different airline IN A DIFFERENT ALLIANCE!!
The airlines can make this much easier on the passenger. They choose not to
As for cost of calling - the good news is anyone with an Internet connection can use Skype et al. to get a virtually free call to the US, even if not on an 800 number. If you don't wa t codeshares, alliances, etc., then tou don't have to use them. But it makes it much easier to book a ticket, because I don't need to go to multiple places to get a multi-city itinerary to places no single airline flies to all of the destinations or does conveniently, and can often be done at a cost cheaper then booking strings of separate tickets (which circles back to the Original topic, since booking on separate tickets can lead to the situation the OP is in where a schedule change fubars a strung together itinerary with the customer on the hook).
No system is perfect, but dealing with a single organization for the changes makes sense to me.
Oh, and by the way, the point of alliances and codeshares isn't to allow a passenger to get earn miles - it's a marketing arrangement that is meant to increase business for the airlines involved - UA can throw business to LH when I need to go to, say, DXB, instead of me potentially going to a different carrier, while LH can sell a ticket to their passengers to, say, DAY instead of them just going to a competitor where they have no gain. The mileage earned is just another incentive for the passengers to book this way vs. making it just as easy for the customer to book doe one else, say DL.
Sorry, it's not easier the way you describe. Perhaps no advantage either way in certain scenarios, but honestly, much easier the way it is in most.
#53
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 402
I Rember not THAT long ago (maybe around 8-10 years, I was booked HNL-SFO-JFK on UA in full F my friend I ran into in Hawaii was booked HNL-LAX-JFK But on AA in discounted first. We stopped at AA first and I asked the agent there if I could have UA endorse my ticket so we could fly together on AA. She said I didn't even need to do that, she could pull up my United txt on her AA computer and grab it herself. Never saw that done before but she did it - to a different airline IN A DIFFERENT ALLIANCE!!
I will assume you're Full F booking was booked in Sabre (likely why AA could just grab it). Otherwise, UA would need to push it, or give you a paper ticket so AA could make a booking and attach the ticket. But I'm not a ticket agent so maybe someone else can chime in.
This ease is really only possible for full fare, non restricted tickets. They are by definition flexible. Today I see so many discounted First fares, that it's almost hard to buy a full fare First or Business ticket, compared to the past.
#54
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Houston
Programs: UA Plat, Marriott Gold
Posts: 12,822
Funny how it's the airline who sold the tkts responsibility to notify us about changes since in this age of alliances & codeshares, it's very common to book a whole multi sector intl trip but never step foot on the sellers aircraft. half of UA's flights from a gateway like NYC are actually operated by LH/LX/ETC. This rule is clearly OUTDATED. (and makes absolutely no sense)
#55
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: SEA/ORD/ADB
Programs: TK ELPL (*G), AS 100K (OWE), BA Gold (OWE), Hyatt Globalist, Hilton Diamond, Marriott Plat, IHG Plat
Posts: 7,768
Funny how it's the airline who sold the tkts responsibility to notify us about changes since in this age of alliances & codeshares, it's very common to book a whole multi sector intl trip but never step foot on the sellers aircraft. half of UA's flights from a gateway like NYC are actually operated by LH/LX/ETC. This rule is clearly OUTDATED. (and makes absolutely no sense)
#56
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: ORD
Programs: UA 1K, AA Plat, Global Entry, Citi Prestige, Chase MileagePlus Club
Posts: 85
Flat tire rule. Could work.
For ORD-MKE? Not a chance.
Especially since the OP bought tickets for relatives who are not seasoned travelers. Just imagine how the conversation would go...
"Sorry, we're late. Had a flat tire and need to get on the next MKE flight"
"Um, why don't you just drive? It's just another hour up the road."
"Oh, well, we need to get there fast!"
"Waiting 2 hours for the next flight will be slower"
"But we're meeting somebody at the airport and have no way to contact them!"
"..."
This whole scenario (OP, not Boghopper suggestion!) is just a really really really bad idea and a case study of what not to do.
For ORD-MKE? Not a chance.
Especially since the OP bought tickets for relatives who are not seasoned travelers. Just imagine how the conversation would go...
"Sorry, we're late. Had a flat tire and need to get on the next MKE flight"
"Um, why don't you just drive? It's just another hour up the road."
"Oh, well, we need to get there fast!"
"Waiting 2 hours for the next flight will be slower"
"But we're meeting somebody at the airport and have no way to contact them!"
"..."
This whole scenario (OP, not Boghopper suggestion!) is just a really really really bad idea and a case study of what not to do.
#57
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Dubai / NYC
Programs: EK-IO, UA-1K2MM, ETIHAD-GOLD, SPG-PLAT LIFETIME, JUMEIRAH SERIUS GOLD
Posts: 5,220
I think we are talking (at least I am) about codeshares & itins operated by multiple airlines in the same alliance. Any airline part of the same alliance or code sharing obviously has interline agreements. Saudia (Skyteam) may not have an agreement with COPA (*A) but for sure Saudia has an agreement with all fellow Skyteam members just as Copa has w Star. These days MOST airlines have interline/ticketing agreements with each other. I just bough a tkt issued by EK (no codeshares) but 2 segments. First flight operated by EK Connecting to ELAL. that would have been unheard of a few years ago
#58
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: SEA/ORD/ADB
Programs: TK ELPL (*G), AS 100K (OWE), BA Gold (OWE), Hyatt Globalist, Hilton Diamond, Marriott Plat, IHG Plat
Posts: 7,768
I think we are talking (at least I am) about codeshares & itins operated by multiple airlines in the same alliance. Any airline part of the same alliance or code sharing obviously has interline agreements. Saudia (Skyteam) may not have an agreement with COPA (*A) but for sure Saudia has an agreement with all fellow Skyteam members just as Copa has w Star. These days MOST airlines have interline/ticketing agreements with each other. I just bough a tkt issued by EK (no codeshares) but 2 segments. First flight operated by EK Connecting to ELAL. that would have been unheard of a few years ago
As long as interline agreements are done bilaterally between airlines like this, the ticket issuer will need to be the one to handle schedule changes.
#59
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Dubai / NYC
Programs: EK-IO, UA-1K2MM, ETIHAD-GOLD, SPG-PLAT LIFETIME, JUMEIRAH SERIUS GOLD
Posts: 5,220
While that may be the case, it's not always true. I flew a ticket recently which had AS, UA, and OS together. AS had an IRROP, and they couldn't reissue the ticket because they didn't have an agreement with OS. They had to go back to UA to get the reissue done.
As long as interline agreements are done bilaterally between airlines like this, the ticket issuer will need to be the one to handle schedule changes.
As long as interline agreements are done bilaterally between airlines like this, the ticket issuer will need to be the one to handle schedule changes.
#60
Suspended
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 693
While that may be the case, it's not always true. I flew a ticket recently which had AS, UA, and OS together. AS had an IRROP, and they couldn't reissue the ticket because they didn't have an agreement with OS. They had to go back to UA to get the reissue done.
As long as interline agreements are done bilaterally between airlines like this, the ticket issuer will need to be the one to handle schedule changes.
As long as interline agreements are done bilaterally between airlines like this, the ticket issuer will need to be the one to handle schedule changes.