Impacts on UA from AS 737MAX9 incident / Travel Waiver (FAA grounding of MAX9s)
Jan 7, 2024, 12:12 am
#136
Moderator: United Airlines
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SFO
Programs: UA LT Plat 2MM, Hyatt Discoverist, Marriott LT Gold, Hilton Silver, IHG Plat
Posts: 68,225
It appears the FAA is wanting more info on the process the airlines are doing to check for the issue. If I understand, the airlines were using the C-level check as the way to validate the integrity of that approach but the FAA wants to airlines to submit a justification. So for now no aircraft have been release by the FAA. WIP
Last edited by WineCountryUA; Jan 7, 2024 at 12:19 am
Jan 7, 2024, 12:53 am
#137
Join Date: Dec 2023
Posts: 204
Looks like a travel waiver has been published covering travel on 7M9's through Monday. I'd be impressed if their system is able to recognize eligible itineraries based solely on aircraft, or if it may require manual handling.
Would be pretty odd for a 3 month old frame to experience a fatigue failure, but have it never happen it in the hundreds of other significantly older frames and more cycles that have this same implementation. This plug design wasn't new with the max. More likely to be a manufacturing defect. But I guess we'll let the investigation figure out the probable causes.
Would be pretty odd for a 3 month old frame to experience a fatigue failure, but have it never happen it in the hundreds of other significantly older frames and more cycles that have this same implementation. This plug design wasn't new with the max. More likely to be a manufacturing defect. But I guess we'll let the investigation figure out the probable causes.
Jan 7, 2024, 1:03 am
#138
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: USA
Programs: UA Platinum, 1MM
Posts: 13,472
It appears the FAA is wanting more info on the process the airlines are doing to check for the issue. If I understand, the airlines were using the C-level check as the way to validate the integrity of that approach but the FAA wants to airlines to submit a justification. So for now no aircraft have been release by the FAA. WIP
Jan 7, 2024, 2:00 am
#139
Join Date: May 2010
Location: AVP & PEK
Programs: UA 1K 1.9MM
Posts: 6,705
It would be nice to get a technical idea on how this plug is installed/attached/secured.
Whether that is something that is regularly checked, and/or is properly designed would be helpful at this point.
An actual door is tried and tested millions of times on thousands of aircraft.
A plug, however, in this context is obviously something only 'temporary' as it can be reverted to a door at any time in the lifespan of the frame.
I am now strongly suspecting a weak/low-cost/barely adequate design coupled with potentially poor implementation on this particular AC craft.
Whether that is something that is regularly checked, and/or is properly designed would be helpful at this point.
An actual door is tried and tested millions of times on thousands of aircraft.
A plug, however, in this context is obviously something only 'temporary' as it can be reverted to a door at any time in the lifespan of the frame.
I am now strongly suspecting a weak/low-cost/barely adequate design coupled with potentially poor implementation on this particular AC craft.
Jan 7, 2024, 3:48 am
#140
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: New York, NY
Programs: UA, AA, DL, Hertz, Avis, National, Hyatt, Hilton, SPG, Marriott
Posts: 9,510
The fact that this precise design has been in service on hundreds of frames for 15+ years and millions of flight-hours suggests to me that this is an isolated circumstance. I suspect eventually facts will emerge that human error (not speculating on whose) is a dispositive issue.
Jan 7, 2024, 4:01 am
#141
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: TPA
Programs: UA GS; Marriott Titanium / LT Plat
Posts: 714
The fact that this precise design has been in service on hundreds of frames for 15+ years and millions of flight-hours suggests to me that this is an isolated circumstance. I suspect eventually facts will emerge that human error (not speculating on whose) is a dispositive issue.
DISCLAIMER: I don't know the 1st thing about airplane construction or safety. I suspect nothing about this, I have no idea!
Jan 7, 2024, 4:49 am
#142
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: New York, NY
Programs: UA, AA, DL, Hertz, Avis, National, Hyatt, Hilton, SPG, Marriott
Posts: 9,510
It would be nice to get a technical idea on how this plug is installed/attached/secured.
Whether that is something that is regularly checked, and/or is properly designed would be helpful at this point.
An actual door is tried and tested millions of times on thousands of aircraft.
A plug, however, in this context is obviously something only 'temporary' as it can be reverted to a door at any time in the lifespan of the frame.
I am now strongly suspecting a weak/low-cost/barely adequate design coupled with potentially poor implementation on this particular AC craft.
Whether that is something that is regularly checked, and/or is properly designed would be helpful at this point.
An actual door is tried and tested millions of times on thousands of aircraft.
A plug, however, in this context is obviously something only 'temporary' as it can be reverted to a door at any time in the lifespan of the frame.
I am now strongly suspecting a weak/low-cost/barely adequate design coupled with potentially poor implementation on this particular AC craft.
Jan 7, 2024, 5:58 am
#143
Join Date: Jun 2014
Programs: UA MM
Posts: 4,366
The fact that this precise design has been in service on hundreds of frames for 15+ years and millions of flight-hours suggests to me that this is an isolated circumstance. I suspect eventually facts will emerge that human error (not speculating on whose) is a dispositive issue.
Jan 7, 2024, 6:06 am
#144
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: New York, NY
Programs: UA, AA, DL, Hertz, Avis, National, Hyatt, Hilton, SPG, Marriott
Posts: 9,510
I've not seen anything from Boeing or elsewhere that definitively states the 739 and MAX 9 have identical plugs. Sure, they look the same and have identical function but does that mean they are mechanically the same? We know from the Chris Brady video that they aren't electrically the same as far as cockpit systems are concerned.
If the NTSB and FAA suspect a design defect, the possibility of which I think is extraordinarily remote, we'd also see a fix carried over to the 739ER too. Right now the emphasis (correctly, IMO) is limited to the more recent production run in the MAX 9 and conditions related to the specific frame.
Jan 7, 2024, 6:22 am
#145
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 2,313
Having no insight to their actual maintenance capabilities and the inspection requirements - I'd say it's unlikely, given it has gone from only half the fleet needs to be checked, others had recent enough inspections (at both UA and AS) back to pulling everything awaiting clarification from the FAA on the exact inspection specifications. The waiver is likely something interim to get the immediate impact through this weekend/Monday covered until they are fully able to scope the impact and timeline
Jan 7, 2024, 7:10 am
#146
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: MSY
Programs: BA GfL
Posts: 5,954
We were scheduled to be on UA1297 MSY-IAH this morning, which was cancelled; we got re-booked to UA1699 this afternoon, which is also supposed to use a 737-900 Max, but is not (yet) cancelled. Maybe they inspected it already? I am holding out hope that our vacation in Mexico does not get any more delayed.
Even if we do fly out this afternoon, we’ve lost 7.5 hours of our trip. UA gave us each $15 meal vouchers for this, but would I be successful trying to extract any more compensation out of them?
Even if we do fly out this afternoon, we’ve lost 7.5 hours of our trip. UA gave us each $15 meal vouchers for this, but would I be successful trying to extract any more compensation out of them?
Jan 7, 2024, 7:20 am
#147
Join Date: May 2023
Location: New York
Posts: 99
We were scheduled to be on UA1297 MSY-IAH this morning, which was cancelled; we got re-booked to UA1699 this afternoon, which is also supposed to use a 737-900 Max, but is not (yet) cancelled. Maybe they inspected it already? I am holding out hope that our vacation in Mexico does not get any more delayed.
Jan 7, 2024, 7:40 am
#150
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: DEN
Programs: UA 1MM, MP 1K, Hilton Diamond, Marriott Gold
Posts: 487
I called to get flight changed for 1/9 because it showed the fare difference online (DEN/KOA from connection in SFO to nonstop). They changed it without the fare difference even with the date just outside the waiver.